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and I guess there has been new interest

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rekindled because of the incredible

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success of a movie called Close

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Encounters of the Third Kind for which

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Dr heineck was a technical consultant

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made a cameo appearance as a matter of

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fact and we thought it might be

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interesting to peruse with him some of

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the reports over the last 30 years and

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the information that he has sifted

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through and see what he really thinks

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about it all some of his credentials

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well uh he for years headed up the Air

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Force's investigations into unidentified

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flying objects he himself was a debunker

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for a very long time you remember the

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marsh gas explanation for the sightings

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in Washington County and in Hillsdale 10

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years ago that was Dr heineck's idea

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um he until very recently was professor

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of the astronomy department at

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Northwestern universities head of the

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center of UFO studies in Chicago and he

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has devoted a good portion of his life

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into studying the phenomenon known as

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UFOs Dr Heineken a very snowy blowy

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morning this Friday in Detroit we're

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pleased that you are here welcome well

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I'm glad to be here I wanted to correct

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two minor points one is I did not head

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off the air force thing I was a

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consultant to them and I still am

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professor of astronomy at Northwestern I

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I did not uh I have one more year to go

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there before

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I thought I read something just this

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morning I had been advertising all week

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long I thought I'd read something just

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this morning that said that you had

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resigned that I'm oh I resigned my

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chairmanship chairman for 15 years yes

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okay well you were still with Northwest

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oh yes still with Northwestern right

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unidentified flying objects have been uh

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popular since 1947 1948. uh when the

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first Bevy of them were cited before

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that were there any reports in history

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as far as you're concerned of UFOs oh

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yes there are many reports but still

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they're so hard to track down and even

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now if a report is more than they say a

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year or two old it's hard to track down

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but uh we of course clear back to

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Biblical times the ezekiel's wheel would

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have been a good example in the Saul of

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Tarsus and the road to Damascus and uh

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oh all through history there have been

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reports and stories of strange sites in

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the sky and on the ground

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but I have my hands so full with the

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present ones I mean the current ones

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that uh it's hardly any point to worry

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about the others how do you go about

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investigating a UFO report hey you get a

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report of a citing do you if it sounds

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reasonable to you do you then contact

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the people and and do an in-depth

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interview with them oh not only the

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people but a lot of peripheral uh

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material we have an outgoing watch line

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and uh we have a full-time paid

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investigator and as Carl's come in and

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we get through our police hotline we get

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uh several calls a day certainly he then

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contacts not only the original Witnesses

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but the police departments in that area

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the FAA the weather bureau no Rad Radar

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installations in other words he does

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everything he can to break it down into

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a normal thing you say who are you

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talking about now I'm talking about our

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page investigator Mr Alan Henry who is

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the chap who uh does a very fine job in

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tracking down and then of course we have

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a core of investigators around the

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country who uh this uh where we can

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enlist on a voluntary volunteer basis

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are there some that are just so

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ridiculous and seem so unlikely to be

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anything worthwhile she's just simply on

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the after the initial evidence you don't

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bother investigating them any further

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well it's the ones that are unlikely

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these are strange ones are the ones we

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really find we have to investigate the

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ones that we don't have to investigate

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are so typical for instance uh we'll get

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uh stories of

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that are generated by these advertising

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planes you know the planes that have

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these rotating Marquee lights from a

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distance those look like a rotating disc

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but we can spot them and Mr Henry has

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the phone numbers as I'm 70 airplane

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advertising companies and all we do is

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call those places and ask them did you

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have a plane at that point at that time

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what do we do in this um the the

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publication you have under your elbow

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there the international UFO reporter

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each month we publish if you take a look

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at the back page each month we publish a

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map of the United States in which we

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plot all the cases that have come to our

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attention those that we can solve we put

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in as we plot as dots those we can't

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solve we plot as stars of course if the

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stars we're interested in but you can

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see also that the dots far outnumber the

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stars and people simply are not aware of

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the number of purely normal things that

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a person can see in the sky now what's

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an ifo the dots are ifos those are

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identified flying objects can you get a

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looking in the map it looks as though

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there were three or four identified

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flying objects spotted in the Detroit

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area oh I'm sure each month now this uh

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I think maybe and I want to mention this

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several times maybe a good starter right

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now

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you started out with the uh introductory

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music from Close Encounters uh which

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Title by the way was uh my title and I I

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call this the 18 million dollar movie

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with a thousand dollar title because

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that's all I got for the title

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you describe this to me on the phone a

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month ago or so uh well actually three

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weeks ago but let's let's do it again

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let's let's go back to the beginning

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what does a close encounter mean okay

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a close encounter is a sighting that is

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close and by close I mean within a few

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hundred feet less than 500 feet

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generally in other words there should be

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little chance of

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misidentifying it with a

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Venus or twinkling star I mean it's

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close by okay and they I divided them

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purposely into three kinds Close

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Encounters of the first kind the second

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kind of Third Kind

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the first kind is close but nothing

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really happens outside the fact that

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people get frightened and uh it's quite

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an experience for them

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a close encounter the second kind are

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those in which some sort of physical

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residue no not a part of a UFO we still

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don't have a front bumper from a UFO or

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anything like that but we do have

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hundreds of cases and I mean hundreds of

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cases in which at the precise spot where

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the UFO is seen there is a burnt ring or

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holes in the ground that obviously

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obviously don't seem to be coming from

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anything else broken tree branches

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animals affected uh animals affected how

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well

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they're going to get tremendously

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panicky cattle will Stampede for

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instance so horses will raise a fuss in

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the barn and uh we've had cases of

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course dogs wildly barking and that's

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that's not terribly exciting but we've

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had cases of a bull for instance that

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was tethered by a to an iron Rod through

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its nose and it got so frightened it

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dumped the iron rod in half so

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um that I'd say is an animal effect or

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an effect on the animal and we have at

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the centrifugal studies we have now

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published a catalog of some 800 of 1100

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now of such cases

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okay this UFO reporter this monthly that

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you release for a dollar will get to in

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just a few minutes I want to talk to you

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though about the much celebrated uh

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release of information by the Air Force

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for years the Air Force kept the lid on

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all this UFO information in

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People magazine in August 1976 and a big

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article about you you said the Air Force

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will open its UFO files and it will make

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juicy reading

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well look that's a year and a half ago

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nothing startling has come up President

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Carter indicated or at least U.S news

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and World Report magazine indicated that

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President Carter this year would make

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some sort of announcement about UFOs

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nothing there's always been an awful lot

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of smoke but no fire what is it well the

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only only solid thing that's come out of

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that see President Carter asked NASA to

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um

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undertake a study of the UFOs and they

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very politely refused and they had good

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reasons but I would like to talk about

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those later

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uh the Air Force did or the National

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Archives did release

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the files of Project Blue Book on which

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I was Consulting for a good many years

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and that is uh Incorporated in my new

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book the uh which is very modestly

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called the heineck UFO report what I do

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there is I think that does many of those

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do make juicy reading juicy not in the

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usual newsstand sense but juicy in the

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sense that it shows how the Air Force

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really bungled many of the cases and

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there did a very real job of keeping

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cases from the public they they why why

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would they do that largely because they

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had were operating under a very strong

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recommendation of this from the CIA

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uh which convened a panel a special

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panel in 1953 called the Robertson

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family in which I was an associate

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member incidentally

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uh the CIA was not frightened of UFOs

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they were frightened of UFO reports they

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were afraid that the public might panic

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and at that time particularly they were

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terribly concerned about subversive

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elements in the country and they thought

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that these these subversive elements of

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Communists might use the whole UFO

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phenomenon the UFO clubs and UFO

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organizations as fronts for subversive

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activities and so they strongly

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recommended that the Air Force do

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everything it can could to debunk the

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situation you were one of the major ones

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one of the major debunkers I mean uh

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because I thought that the whole thing

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was a lot of junk have you changed your

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mind yes significantly oh absolutely

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significantly otherwise I wouldn't be

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heading up the center for UFO studies do

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you believe that many of these UFO

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reports are not only real but that are

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extraterrestrially directed

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there are three basic theories of the

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UFO today one the first of course is

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that it is complete nonsense

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second is that they are extraterrestrial

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vehicles

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and the third is that they really

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represent Something From Another

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Dimension a parallel reality there may

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be four or five others that I don't know

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about oh there are some fanciful ones

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very fanciful indeed uh all of these are

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sensible except the first one I think

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that's fanciful too

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the um there are some people who speak

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of our future coming back to look at us

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and uh the things that would certainly

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be sheer sheer science fiction but that

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sounds like science fiction did can you

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even buy the concept of that our future

275
00:10:50,030 --> 00:10:47,399
coming back I can't time machine stuff

276
00:10:51,829 --> 00:10:50,040
no I I can't where are they for what's

277
00:10:53,870 --> 00:10:51,839
the parallel reality

278
00:10:57,530 --> 00:10:53,880
well that's an intriguing

279
00:11:00,290 --> 00:10:57,540
um concept uh and it shouldn't bother us

280
00:11:01,790 --> 00:11:00,300
so much because the good Heavens I don't

281
00:11:04,250 --> 00:11:01,800
know which particular religion you

282
00:11:07,250 --> 00:11:04,260
happen to be but uh of all of our major

283
00:11:09,370 --> 00:11:07,260
religions and the great philosophers and

284
00:11:12,350 --> 00:11:09,380
Prophets of the past have all told us

285
00:11:13,850 --> 00:11:12,360
that the physical world is not the whole

286
00:11:15,650 --> 00:11:13,860
thing that there are other planes of

287
00:11:17,990 --> 00:11:15,660
existence where do angels existence the

288
00:11:20,569 --> 00:11:18,000
Bible's full of angels for instance well

289
00:11:22,250 --> 00:11:20,579
that would be an example of parallel

290
00:11:24,590 --> 00:11:22,260
reality or another more practical

291
00:11:26,930 --> 00:11:24,600
example is right now even though we're

292
00:11:28,449 --> 00:11:26,940
in a radio Studio that are passing

293
00:11:31,910 --> 00:11:28,459
through this room television pictures

294
00:11:33,829 --> 00:11:31,920
that we can't see but uh it's it

295
00:11:37,370 --> 00:11:33,839
represents a sort of a parallel reality

296
00:11:40,550 --> 00:11:37,380
okay uh another dimension put it that

297
00:11:43,130 --> 00:11:40,560
way uh there's nothing nothing too

298
00:11:45,110 --> 00:11:43,140
fanciful about that I mean well there's

299
00:11:46,610 --> 00:11:45,120
the there's nothing fanciful about it

300
00:11:48,110 --> 00:11:46,620
from the sense that it's been discussed

301
00:11:49,670 --> 00:11:48,120
for a long time but when you stop and

302
00:11:52,790 --> 00:11:49,680
think about it it doesn't make any sense

303
00:11:54,530 --> 00:11:52,800
at all a two-dimensional thing something

304
00:11:56,329 --> 00:11:54,540
that has no depth that doesn't make

305
00:11:57,230 --> 00:11:56,339
sense to me no and why would it appear

306
00:12:00,290 --> 00:11:57,240
suddenly

307
00:12:02,150 --> 00:12:00,300
no I mean I'm not a two-dimensional but

308
00:12:03,710 --> 00:12:02,160
a four or five dimensional why would it

309
00:12:05,389 --> 00:12:03,720
suddenly appear in ours in our

310
00:12:07,069 --> 00:12:05,399
three-dimensional World an interface

311
00:12:09,170 --> 00:12:07,079
have you ever read this little or seen

312
00:12:12,410 --> 00:12:09,180
this delightful little book called flat

313
00:12:14,329 --> 00:12:12,420
land by a square yes and there you see

314
00:12:17,090 --> 00:12:14,339
it brings it down by one dimension it

315
00:12:20,150 --> 00:12:17,100
talks about creatures triangles octagons

316
00:12:22,910 --> 00:12:20,160
hexagons and squares that all live on a

317
00:12:24,530 --> 00:12:22,920
large sheet of paper and the uh the I

318
00:12:27,410 --> 00:12:24,540
think it's the triangles have precedence

319
00:12:29,569 --> 00:12:27,420
over the squares and the when a triangle

320
00:12:31,970 --> 00:12:29,579
meets the heck of a square the Square's

321
00:12:33,350 --> 00:12:31,980
got to give way and one day a sphere

322
00:12:35,030 --> 00:12:33,360
comes to visit them and you remember

323
00:12:36,290 --> 00:12:35,040
what happens uh to these people that

324
00:12:38,329 --> 00:12:36,300
live in the two Dimensions they first

325
00:12:40,310 --> 00:12:38,339
see it as a point and at large is it to

326
00:12:42,590 --> 00:12:40,320
a large Circle and then it disappears

327
00:12:45,050 --> 00:12:42,600
again as the sphere passes through that

328
00:12:47,449 --> 00:12:45,060
sheet of paper you see now all you have

329
00:12:49,850 --> 00:12:47,459
to do and I say all you have to do is

330
00:12:51,590 --> 00:12:49,860
just up that by one dimension

331
00:12:54,650 --> 00:12:51,600
um instead of a two-dimensional we're a

332
00:12:56,930 --> 00:12:54,660
three-dimensional and a four-dimensional

333
00:12:59,449 --> 00:12:56,940
thing would appear to us magically it

334
00:13:01,190 --> 00:12:59,459
would it would appear by Magic much like

335
00:13:02,930 --> 00:13:01,200
the Cheshire Cat in Alice in Wonderland

336
00:13:05,090 --> 00:13:02,940
remember the Cheshire Cat that

337
00:13:07,850 --> 00:13:05,100
disappeared leaving only its grin where

338
00:13:10,389 --> 00:13:07,860
it went into another dimension and Marsh

339
00:13:13,190 --> 00:13:10,399
gas you've invented you coined the word

340
00:13:14,810 --> 00:13:13,200
uh 10 years ago or so I want to talk

341
00:13:16,009 --> 00:13:14,820
about that and get on the telephone too

342
00:13:19,329 --> 00:13:16,019
with some listeners who have been very

343
00:13:23,150 --> 00:13:19,339
patiently hanging on our number is

344
00:13:25,850 --> 00:13:23,160
875-4476 and Dr uh heineck will answer

345
00:13:27,769 --> 00:13:25,860
your calls okay we'll see what you have

346
00:13:30,230 --> 00:13:27,779
to say any Close Encounters you might

347
00:13:32,389 --> 00:13:30,240
have had or would like that gee you have

348
00:13:34,250 --> 00:13:32,399
been holding on the line very patiently

349
00:13:36,590 --> 00:13:34,260
what is it you'd like to ask Dr heineck

350
00:13:39,230 --> 00:13:36,600
yeah so good morning Dr heineck good

351
00:13:41,769 --> 00:13:39,240
morning yes I have two questions uh

352
00:13:45,230 --> 00:13:41,779
number one under the United States

353
00:13:47,990 --> 00:13:45,240
freedom information how

354
00:13:50,870 --> 00:13:48,000
does the United States citizen obtain a

355
00:13:54,889 --> 00:13:50,880
copy of the Project Blue Book

356
00:13:57,530 --> 00:13:54,899
all right uh that's available it's a

357
00:14:00,889 --> 00:13:57,540
little expensive but it's available in

358
00:14:02,509 --> 00:14:00,899
94 reels of microfilm that run you about

359
00:14:05,870 --> 00:14:02,519
a thousand dollars if you want those

360
00:14:09,470 --> 00:14:05,880
however that's precisely what I I did I

361
00:14:11,389 --> 00:14:09,480
got those 94 reels and have extracted

362
00:14:14,509 --> 00:14:11,399
taken out the you might say the juicy

363
00:14:16,910 --> 00:14:14,519
parts and publish them in the uh the

364
00:14:19,670 --> 00:14:16,920
Dell paperback the heineck UFO report

365
00:14:23,629 --> 00:14:19,680
which ought to be available in in the

366
00:14:25,310 --> 00:14:23,639
bookstores around here and that's your

367
00:14:27,050 --> 00:14:25,320
easiest way of getting the information

368
00:14:31,670 --> 00:14:27,060
if you want to spend a thousand dollars

369
00:14:32,269 --> 00:14:31,680
and buy the 94 reels of microfilm from

370
00:14:35,569 --> 00:14:32,279
um

371
00:14:39,230 --> 00:14:35,579
the archives fine but I uh it's a little

372
00:14:41,990 --> 00:14:39,240
on the expensive side and my second

373
00:14:45,490 --> 00:14:42,000
uh if a group of me

374
00:14:48,769 --> 00:14:45,500
design a prototype are they elect

375
00:14:49,970 --> 00:14:48,779
electronic magnetic ion propulsion

376
00:14:52,490 --> 00:14:49,980
engine

377
00:14:54,889 --> 00:14:52,500
where would you recommend they go

378
00:14:58,370 --> 00:14:54,899
in order to get a patent on this

379
00:15:00,530 --> 00:14:58,380
development well you've introduced the

380
00:15:03,769 --> 00:15:00,540
term patent there I think it's always a

381
00:15:06,470 --> 00:15:03,779
wise idea to uh you have one's ideas

382
00:15:08,269 --> 00:15:06,480
protected by patents because the world

383
00:15:10,670 --> 00:15:08,279
is full of unscrupulous people

384
00:15:13,550 --> 00:15:10,680
I would I've never had a patent in my

385
00:15:14,750 --> 00:15:13,560
life but I've had many copyrights but

386
00:15:18,590 --> 00:15:14,760
not patents

387
00:15:20,689 --> 00:15:18,600
uh I expect a patent lawyer would be the

388
00:15:21,710 --> 00:15:20,699
first person to see about that but apart

389
00:15:24,829 --> 00:15:21,720
from that

390
00:15:27,889 --> 00:15:24,839
I would I would certainly contact some

391
00:15:30,350 --> 00:15:27,899
people in NASA in Washington say that

392
00:15:31,670 --> 00:15:30,360
you have or have this thing and they

393
00:15:33,350 --> 00:15:31,680
undoubtedly would be interested now

394
00:15:35,389 --> 00:15:33,360
they're basically a very honest group

395
00:15:37,490 --> 00:15:35,399
and I don't think they would steal your

396
00:15:39,769 --> 00:15:37,500
idea okay thank you sir thank you very

397
00:15:43,189 --> 00:15:39,779
much hello you're on the radio you're on

398
00:15:47,090 --> 00:15:43,199
WJR with Dr J Alan heineck yes

399
00:15:48,530 --> 00:15:47,100
about uh three years ago at a airport in

400
00:15:49,550 --> 00:15:48,540
an Air Force installation on the East

401
00:15:52,910 --> 00:15:49,560
Coast

402
00:15:53,590 --> 00:15:52,920
uh there appeared three

403
00:15:56,210 --> 00:15:53,600
um

404
00:15:58,129 --> 00:15:56,220
unidentified flying objects

405
00:16:00,350 --> 00:15:58,139
over the ocean

406
00:16:01,910 --> 00:16:00,360
now the Air Force

407
00:16:04,430 --> 00:16:01,920
security people

408
00:16:06,110 --> 00:16:04,440
the base commander all the people on the

409
00:16:09,650 --> 00:16:06,120
Air Force Base the people in the

410
00:16:11,629 --> 00:16:09,660
surrounding towns uh saw these objects

411
00:16:13,370 --> 00:16:11,639
uh for any call

412
00:16:15,769 --> 00:16:13,380
we've made

413
00:16:17,650 --> 00:16:15,779
to an Air Force base for a fighter

414
00:16:21,110 --> 00:16:17,660
investigation

415
00:16:23,689 --> 00:16:21,120
uh the uh people at the fighter base

416
00:16:26,810 --> 00:16:23,699
that uh don't worry about it

417
00:16:29,389 --> 00:16:26,820
they watch these uh UFOs for about two

418
00:16:31,310 --> 00:16:29,399
hours there were three of them

419
00:16:33,290 --> 00:16:31,320
uh they didn't know

420
00:16:36,050 --> 00:16:33,300
the size of them

421
00:16:37,249 --> 00:16:36,060
or the a distance that they were were

422
00:16:39,050 --> 00:16:37,259
away

423
00:16:41,509 --> 00:16:39,060
because they were over water and they

424
00:16:44,509 --> 00:16:41,519
had nothing to judge them by they stayed

425
00:16:47,150 --> 00:16:44,519
there approximately two hours and then

426
00:16:49,790 --> 00:16:47,160
took off now they took off and speed

427
00:16:51,410 --> 00:16:49,800
that must have been about five to ten

428
00:16:54,050 --> 00:16:51,420
times the speed of a Rocket taking off

429
00:16:56,150 --> 00:16:54,060
now have you heard about that and can

430
00:16:57,710 --> 00:16:56,160
you explain it uh well first of all I

431
00:16:59,689 --> 00:16:57,720
certainly couldn't explain it other than

432
00:17:01,610 --> 00:16:59,699
calling it a UFO and then let's always

433
00:17:04,730 --> 00:17:01,620
remember that the U and UFO simply means

434
00:17:08,150 --> 00:17:04,740
unidentified right uh

435
00:17:10,850 --> 00:17:08,160
now I had not heard I we may have we

436
00:17:13,789 --> 00:17:10,860
have in our computerized data banks some

437
00:17:15,470 --> 00:17:13,799
60 000 reports and we can get printouts

438
00:17:18,110 --> 00:17:15,480
so that any if you for instance wanted

439
00:17:20,270 --> 00:17:18,120
to know uh what cases there were in your

440
00:17:21,770 --> 00:17:20,280
own neighborhood or in the your county

441
00:17:24,409 --> 00:17:21,780
or something in the sort of your state

442
00:17:25,850 --> 00:17:24,419
we can have a print out of that but I

443
00:17:27,949 --> 00:17:25,860
don't have the computer bank with me

444
00:17:30,110 --> 00:17:27,959
here so I don't know that in that

445
00:17:33,710 --> 00:17:30,120
particular case you know one thing we

446
00:17:35,930 --> 00:17:33,720
forgot JP is um we forgot and we're

447
00:17:37,669 --> 00:17:35,940
talking about the UFO reporter we forgot

448
00:17:39,770 --> 00:17:37,679
to give the address to where people

449
00:17:46,029 --> 00:17:39,780
might get it and I'd be delighted to do

450
00:17:50,450 --> 00:17:48,289
Chicago Avenue that's right or just

451
00:17:51,710 --> 00:17:50,460
simply Edmonton Illinois is it is

452
00:17:55,010 --> 00:17:51,720
sufficient we're well enough no one

453
00:17:57,529 --> 00:17:55,020
there UFO reporter Evanston Illinois the

454
00:17:59,230 --> 00:17:57,539
zip is 60202 however that's always

455
00:18:01,850 --> 00:17:59,240
important uh

456
00:18:04,430 --> 00:18:01,860
let me add this now that is it's going

457
00:18:06,350 --> 00:18:04,440
to cost you a dollars it's a monthly

458
00:18:08,750 --> 00:18:06,360
yeah since the 12 a year in dollar copy

459
00:18:10,070 --> 00:18:08,760
less than a drink wait it's sir let me

460
00:18:11,330 --> 00:18:10,080
ask you this and we've gotta I want to

461
00:18:12,890 --> 00:18:11,340
get on to the weather and then we'll get

462
00:18:17,830 --> 00:18:12,900
back on the telephone with some folks

463
00:18:27,350 --> 00:18:21,230
did you see these no sir uh I did not

464
00:18:32,330 --> 00:18:30,409
forms as people uh and we had hoped this

465
00:18:34,610 --> 00:18:32,340
morning to get some some direct

466
00:18:35,990 --> 00:18:34,620
first-hand reports so yeah and I think

467
00:18:38,570 --> 00:18:36,000
that's one thing we want to tell the

468
00:18:41,450 --> 00:18:38,580
listeners that it's their scientific

469
00:18:43,010 --> 00:18:41,460
duty to report things that they fear

470
00:18:44,150 --> 00:18:43,020
were really truly puzzling because we

471
00:18:46,490 --> 00:18:44,160
have very good evidence at the center

472
00:18:48,169 --> 00:18:46,500
for UFO studies that nine out of 10

473
00:18:50,150 --> 00:18:48,179
people who have had a UFO experience

474
00:18:52,909 --> 00:18:50,160
have failed to report it simply because

475
00:18:54,529 --> 00:18:52,919
they feared ridiculed right ridicule is

476
00:18:56,330 --> 00:18:54,539
a very real thing it certainly is sir

477
00:18:57,890 --> 00:18:56,340
thank you for calling thank you okay

478
00:18:59,230 --> 00:18:57,900
we'll be on the telephone in just a

479
00:19:01,970 --> 00:18:59,240
couple of seconds we would like to

480
00:19:03,590 --> 00:19:01,980
believe me if you have feared ridicule

481
00:19:05,330 --> 00:19:03,600
and you think you've seen something that

482
00:19:06,710 --> 00:19:05,340
frightened you or startled you that you

483
00:19:09,230 --> 00:19:06,720
couldn't explain and you didn't tell

484
00:19:11,150 --> 00:19:09,240
anyone about it be anonymity the

485
00:19:13,370 --> 00:19:11,160
anonymity of the telephone in the radio

486
00:19:16,610 --> 00:19:13,380
is yours it's not an easy word to say at

487
00:19:28,370 --> 00:19:16,620
this hour that was to be 17 before eight

488
00:19:33,830 --> 00:19:30,470
it the Rainy spring night about a year

489
00:19:39,350 --> 00:19:33,840
ago and uh I'm proceeding on a highway

490
00:19:40,909 --> 00:19:39,360
and saw a huge red light up ahead and my

491
00:19:44,450 --> 00:19:40,919
first thought was that this was possibly

492
00:19:45,830 --> 00:19:44,460
the top light of a new antenna or you

493
00:19:49,490 --> 00:19:45,840
know tower that they had put an

494
00:19:51,650 --> 00:19:49,500
obstruction light on and was huge and as

495
00:19:53,750 --> 00:19:51,660
I proceeded North on the highway and The

496
00:19:55,669 --> 00:19:53,760
Light Came toward me I could see that it

497
00:19:57,890 --> 00:19:55,679
was not one light but two lights which

498
00:19:59,150 --> 00:19:57,900
emerged as one at a distance

499
00:20:00,950 --> 00:19:59,160
and

500
00:20:03,710 --> 00:20:00,960
um

501
00:20:06,470 --> 00:20:03,720
between the two lights were possibly a

502
00:20:09,169 --> 00:20:06,480
paint green light and then just maybe a

503
00:20:11,990 --> 00:20:09,179
hazy gray light on each side of the

504
00:20:14,210 --> 00:20:12,000
green light in the center and then of

505
00:20:16,909 --> 00:20:14,220
course the two red lights on the outer

506
00:20:19,010 --> 00:20:16,919
side which were huge by the way and then

507
00:20:21,590 --> 00:20:19,020
two like spotlights which were

508
00:20:22,610 --> 00:20:21,600
crisscrossing on each side of the red

509
00:20:25,070 --> 00:20:22,620
light

510
00:20:27,650 --> 00:20:25,080
wow that what a vivid description that

511
00:20:29,630 --> 00:20:27,660
is well I'm glad you're reporting it now

512
00:20:31,549 --> 00:20:29,640
you did you do demonstrate one thing

513
00:20:34,549 --> 00:20:31,559
which I've long ago called the

514
00:20:37,070 --> 00:20:34,559
escalation of hypothesis there are when

515
00:20:39,830 --> 00:20:37,080
people do finally report they will say

516
00:20:41,210 --> 00:20:39,840
at first I thought it was an accident on

517
00:20:43,130 --> 00:20:41,220
the road and that the light was a

518
00:20:44,210 --> 00:20:43,140
flasher Beacon then I didn't realize it

519
00:20:46,070 --> 00:20:44,220
wasn't that and then I thought it was

520
00:20:48,409 --> 00:20:46,080
maybe an aircraft coming in and so forth

521
00:20:50,390 --> 00:20:48,419
people try to explain it to them to

522
00:20:51,529 --> 00:20:50,400
themselves first and then they have sort

523
00:20:54,049 --> 00:20:51,539
of driven up to the wall and they

524
00:20:56,810 --> 00:20:54,059
realize that they can't explain it now

525
00:20:59,270 --> 00:20:56,820
uh how did how long did this whole thing

526
00:21:02,330 --> 00:20:59,280
last I'd like to ask you okay let me put

527
00:21:03,890 --> 00:21:02,340
it this way I turned off i-7 five onto a

528
00:21:06,289 --> 00:21:03,900
highway going directly north and south

529
00:21:08,690 --> 00:21:06,299
my home being exactly four miles away

530
00:21:10,850 --> 00:21:08,700
and I proceeded probably half a mile

531
00:21:13,490 --> 00:21:10,860
when I saw the red light now it's a

532
00:21:15,950 --> 00:21:13,500
little hilly in this area and I saw the

533
00:21:18,169 --> 00:21:15,960
red light when I finally traveled maybe

534
00:21:20,390 --> 00:21:18,179
another mile and a half which would be

535
00:21:22,610 --> 00:21:20,400
two miles away from my home I got a very

536
00:21:24,770 --> 00:21:22,620
good look at it of course it was dark

537
00:21:28,070 --> 00:21:24,780
about 10 30 at night it was blowing

538
00:21:29,570 --> 00:21:28,080
raining you know type of evening and I

539
00:21:35,990 --> 00:21:29,580
got a good look at it put it

540
00:21:40,669 --> 00:21:37,909
I lost my train of thought well I tell

541
00:21:42,649 --> 00:21:40,679
you what uh that I would very much like

542
00:21:45,710 --> 00:21:42,659
to have you and any other listener who

543
00:21:48,289 --> 00:21:45,720
is one of the nine out of ten uh to

544
00:21:50,810 --> 00:21:48,299
write it up and report it send it in to

545
00:21:54,830 --> 00:21:50,820
the Center for UFO studies

546
00:21:56,870 --> 00:21:54,840
in Evanston Illinois and we operate as a

547
00:21:59,090 --> 00:21:56,880
clinic you might say we never divulge

548
00:22:01,430 --> 00:21:59,100
the names of people who report to us so

549
00:22:03,649 --> 00:22:01,440
that your report is treated uh

550
00:22:05,990 --> 00:22:03,659
completely confidentially we release

551
00:22:07,789 --> 00:22:06,000
your name only with your permission so

552
00:22:09,950 --> 00:22:07,799
you don't have to worry about that okay

553
00:22:11,990 --> 00:22:09,960
Dr heineck one of the uh claims made

554
00:22:14,330 --> 00:22:12,000
when I when I told what I had seen two

555
00:22:16,370 --> 00:22:14,340
friends was that this was an advertising

556
00:22:18,350 --> 00:22:16,380
plane and of course this seemed

557
00:22:20,149 --> 00:22:18,360
ridiculous to me at 10 30 in the evening

558
00:22:22,130 --> 00:22:20,159
with a rainy boring night that an

559
00:22:24,110 --> 00:22:22,140
advertising plane would be out well 10

560
00:22:27,770 --> 00:22:24,120
30 in the evening wouldn't be bad but

561
00:22:29,810 --> 00:22:27,780
the Rainy blowing night and also they

562
00:22:30,529 --> 00:22:29,820
don't fly that how low are the clouds do

563
00:22:32,149 --> 00:22:30,539
you imagine

564
00:22:37,010 --> 00:22:32,159
I can't tell you tell you there was no

565
00:22:40,789 --> 00:22:39,110
it was so huge I have looked constantly

566
00:22:42,649 --> 00:22:40,799
every night I go out to see if there's a

567
00:22:45,590 --> 00:22:42,659
plane with red lights as large as this

568
00:22:47,810 --> 00:22:45,600
it would be almost like a stop uh light

569
00:22:50,230 --> 00:22:47,820
up in the sky and

570
00:22:55,130 --> 00:22:53,930
how did it disappear well okay then at

571
00:23:00,230 --> 00:22:55,140
that point I was heading north on the

572
00:23:03,710 --> 00:23:02,210
pair of binoculars jumped back in the

573
00:23:06,289 --> 00:23:03,720
car and went back down the road but it

574
00:23:07,610 --> 00:23:06,299
was gone and of course as I said my

575
00:23:09,590 --> 00:23:07,620
first thought that it was the light on

576
00:23:11,510 --> 00:23:09,600
top of the obstruction line on top of a

577
00:23:14,270 --> 00:23:11,520
new tower but uh having lived in the

578
00:23:16,970 --> 00:23:14,280
area for 10 years I had since worked and

579
00:23:19,190 --> 00:23:16,980
obviously there's no uh Tower there how

580
00:23:22,070 --> 00:23:19,200
close do you think I know judging

581
00:23:23,690 --> 00:23:22,080
distances at night is very difficult but

582
00:23:27,350 --> 00:23:23,700
how close do you think it may have come

583
00:23:28,789 --> 00:23:27,360
to you okay uh I pinpointed the spot

584
00:23:30,409 --> 00:23:28,799
where I got a good look at it at

585
00:23:32,630 --> 00:23:30,419
approximately like a quarter of a mile

586
00:23:34,310 --> 00:23:32,640
away or at least it where the two roads

587
00:23:35,630 --> 00:23:34,320
crossed a quarter of a mile away well

588
00:23:37,850 --> 00:23:35,640
that doesn't make it a close encounter

589
00:23:40,250 --> 00:23:37,860
but it makes it a good nocturnal light

590
00:23:42,110 --> 00:23:40,260
okay but you know what uh on the basis

591
00:23:43,850 --> 00:23:42,120
of the skimpy information I'm giving you

592
00:23:45,529 --> 00:23:43,860
it doesn't strike you as an advertising

593
00:23:47,450 --> 00:23:45,539
plane does it no not from what you've

594
00:23:49,850 --> 00:23:47,460
said and and the weather seems to argue

595
00:23:51,649 --> 00:23:49,860
against that but the only thing was that

596
00:23:54,049 --> 00:23:51,659
I could see no form because it was so

597
00:23:55,909 --> 00:23:54,059
dark all I could see were these huge

598
00:23:58,250 --> 00:23:55,919
Sprites with the two spotlights

599
00:23:59,750 --> 00:23:58,260
crisscrossing at the outer end of the

600
00:24:03,190 --> 00:23:59,760
red line I don't suppose you lower the

601
00:24:09,409 --> 00:24:07,730
yeah well uh please do send that report

602
00:24:12,110 --> 00:24:09,419
into the center for UFO studies in

603
00:24:14,750 --> 00:24:12,120
Evanston Illinois 60202 now there's

604
00:24:16,610 --> 00:24:14,760
another one if you have the time can you

605
00:24:17,690 --> 00:24:16,620
hang on for just a half a second okay

606
00:24:19,250 --> 00:24:17,700
I've got to take care of a little

607
00:24:20,390 --> 00:24:19,260
business here and we'll be back on the

608
00:24:21,590 --> 00:24:20,400
telephone we want to give some of the

609
00:24:23,210 --> 00:24:21,600
other folks have been hanging out a

610
00:24:24,590 --> 00:24:23,220
chance too okay would you mind calling

611
00:24:27,230 --> 00:24:24,600
us back a little later no problem thank

612
00:24:29,210 --> 00:24:27,240
you I don't I think you do want the

613
00:24:31,669 --> 00:24:29,220
cloak of anonymity so just go ahead and

614
00:24:33,890 --> 00:24:31,679
tell Dr heinek your story I don't mind

615
00:24:35,350 --> 00:24:33,900
giving the location

616
00:24:38,990 --> 00:24:35,360
um this was on

617
00:24:40,730 --> 00:24:39,000
October the 2nd 1973 I'm reading some

618
00:24:42,470 --> 00:24:40,740
notes that I'd written down a couple

619
00:24:44,990 --> 00:24:42,480
three years ago

620
00:24:47,510 --> 00:24:45,000
it was at 10 15 P.M

621
00:24:51,830 --> 00:24:47,520
and it was about five miles north of

622
00:24:54,590 --> 00:24:51,840
Route 270 on Route 23 in central Ohio

623
00:24:55,430 --> 00:24:54,600
now I can mute this route for like nine

624
00:24:59,270 --> 00:24:55,440
years

625
00:25:01,430 --> 00:24:59,280
and um so it wasn't it was easy to spot

626
00:25:04,789 --> 00:25:01,440
something out of the ordinary

627
00:25:06,169 --> 00:25:04,799
and there was a I have written here on

628
00:25:07,250 --> 00:25:06,179
oval

629
00:25:10,789 --> 00:25:07,260
White

630
00:25:12,950 --> 00:25:10,799
with a reddish Green Glow to the left of

631
00:25:17,210 --> 00:25:12,960
the road it was about a quarter of a

632
00:25:19,430 --> 00:25:17,220
mile off the road uh probably uh 100 to

633
00:25:22,250 --> 00:25:19,440
200 feet in the air so it wasn't very

634
00:25:24,590 --> 00:25:22,260
far up it was a bright night

635
00:25:27,230 --> 00:25:24,600
so you could see the shape of it against

636
00:25:30,070 --> 00:25:27,240
the sky it was probably about a 20

637
00:25:32,630 --> 00:25:30,080
degree ellipse shape

638
00:25:36,590 --> 00:25:32,640
I've written that it was probably about

639
00:25:39,350 --> 00:25:36,600
40 feet across 30 to 40 feet across I

640
00:25:42,950 --> 00:25:39,360
got pretty excited at the time

641
00:25:45,049 --> 00:25:42,960
so I didn't stop but I did have the

642
00:25:46,970 --> 00:25:45,059
phenomenon I guess you'd call it of

643
00:25:50,570 --> 00:25:46,980
having my automobile

644
00:25:52,669 --> 00:25:50,580
quit running properly the lights dimmed

645
00:25:54,289 --> 00:25:52,679
and the motor began to miss like when

646
00:25:56,510 --> 00:25:54,299
it's running out of gas

647
00:25:58,310 --> 00:25:56,520
for just a few moments and then it

648
00:26:00,110 --> 00:25:58,320
started running again fine and I pulled

649
00:26:02,330 --> 00:26:00,120
in the state highway patrol

650
00:26:04,490 --> 00:26:02,340
and I got a patrolman out and we both

651
00:26:06,710 --> 00:26:04,500
looked at it and I asked him if it was

652
00:26:09,289 --> 00:26:06,720
something that he knew about he said

653
00:26:11,510 --> 00:26:09,299
only from phone calls coming in

654
00:26:12,830 --> 00:26:11,520
and I couldn't really understand why

655
00:26:15,470 --> 00:26:12,840
anything like that'd be around Ohio

656
00:26:17,149 --> 00:26:15,480
except that it occurred to me that this

657
00:26:19,549 --> 00:26:17,159
is Perkins Observatory one of the big

658
00:26:23,690 --> 00:26:19,559
radio telescopes is

659
00:26:28,310 --> 00:26:26,149
um I I used to work at Perkins

660
00:26:29,990 --> 00:26:28,320
reservatory for many years you know the

661
00:26:31,070 --> 00:26:30,000
area I know the area very well yeah it

662
00:26:34,070 --> 00:26:31,080
was right on the hill they called

663
00:26:36,590 --> 00:26:34,080
Kingman Hill oh yes I know that well it

664
00:26:39,950 --> 00:26:36,600
was just I'd say 300 yards to the left

665
00:26:43,970 --> 00:26:39,960
of the road and not very high up

666
00:26:46,669 --> 00:26:43,980
well no uh I definitely want you to send

667
00:26:49,610 --> 00:26:46,679
this report in to me at the center for

668
00:26:53,169 --> 00:26:49,620
UFO studies and not as Joe said Chicago

669
00:26:57,830 --> 00:26:53,179
but Evanston Illinois and the zip is

670
00:26:59,870 --> 00:26:57,840
60202 okay and uh your name will not be

671
00:27:01,789 --> 00:26:59,880
used without your permission so don't

672
00:27:05,029 --> 00:27:01,799
worry about that okay

673
00:27:07,130 --> 00:27:05,039
this is a very interesting case what is

674
00:27:09,890 --> 00:27:07,140
your technical background if I if I may

675
00:27:12,350 --> 00:27:09,900
ask I'm not a technician I'm a I'm a

676
00:27:14,029 --> 00:27:12,360
commercial artist oh wow hey you could

677
00:27:16,190 --> 00:27:14,039
draw this thing for us because how about

678
00:27:18,110 --> 00:27:16,200
a good sketch I could do that that would

679
00:27:19,909 --> 00:27:18,120
be great I'd like that

680
00:27:22,070 --> 00:27:19,919
um you know your your experience sounds

681
00:27:23,990 --> 00:27:22,080
an awful lot like one of the episodes

682
00:27:25,850 --> 00:27:24,000
from the movie Close Encounters then

683
00:27:28,570 --> 00:27:25,860
they Dr honey yes it does except that

684
00:27:31,010 --> 00:27:28,580
was uh moving much more

685
00:27:32,450 --> 00:27:31,020
this made no movement it just stayed

686
00:27:34,190 --> 00:27:32,460
stationary in the sky like you'd be

687
00:27:35,330 --> 00:27:34,200
looking at a big the lady describe like

688
00:27:37,610 --> 00:27:35,340
a big tower

689
00:27:39,649 --> 00:27:37,620
uh well but there was nothing supporting

690
00:27:42,470 --> 00:27:39,659
it well did it seem to be solid or was

691
00:27:44,630 --> 00:27:42,480
it a just a light it seemed to be solid

692
00:27:46,430 --> 00:27:44,640
you know but it had an enjoying glow to

693
00:27:49,010 --> 00:27:46,440
it that's the only good word I can

694
00:27:50,870 --> 00:27:49,020
describe I thought at the beginning it

695
00:27:52,490 --> 00:27:50,880
was a helicopter with blinking light but

696
00:27:54,409 --> 00:27:52,500
when you got close enough you could see

697
00:27:58,070 --> 00:27:54,419
that they weren't blinking lights

698
00:28:02,390 --> 00:27:58,080
they were undulating glowing areas of

699
00:28:04,909 --> 00:28:02,400
light like not defined sort of moving

700
00:28:07,010 --> 00:28:04,919
and then it just disappeared you know it

701
00:28:08,930 --> 00:28:07,020
didn't make any movement it didn't go

702
00:28:11,990 --> 00:28:08,940
off quickly or anything it just simply

703
00:28:15,110 --> 00:28:12,000
wasn't there any longer oh no you said

704
00:28:16,610 --> 00:28:15,120
the policeman uh also thought yes I have

705
00:28:19,190 --> 00:28:16,620
nowhere knowing his name but I did

706
00:28:22,190 --> 00:28:19,200
report it to the state patrol and uh in

707
00:28:23,930 --> 00:28:22,200
uh it was the Delaware office well the

708
00:28:25,010 --> 00:28:23,940
Delaware taking reports then and writing

709
00:28:27,890 --> 00:28:25,020
them down at least they told me they

710
00:28:29,510 --> 00:28:27,900
were yeah and uh they they were getting

711
00:28:31,430 --> 00:28:29,520
other calls about it today at the same

712
00:28:32,570 --> 00:28:31,440
time yeah when I but I walked into the

713
00:28:33,950 --> 00:28:32,580
station because I happened to be right

714
00:28:36,529 --> 00:28:33,960
there you know I used to live in

715
00:28:38,450 --> 00:28:36,539
Delaware for years so I know the area I

716
00:28:40,070 --> 00:28:38,460
see well I had written down two or three

717
00:28:42,649 --> 00:28:40,080
others that I'll write down and send to

718
00:28:44,570 --> 00:28:42,659
you I have a tape because I switched my

719
00:28:47,149 --> 00:28:44,580
tape recorder on in the car it looks

720
00:28:48,529 --> 00:28:47,159
very good and I couldn't locate it this

721
00:28:50,690 --> 00:28:48,539
morning because I really I'm not sure

722
00:28:53,210 --> 00:28:50,700
where I put it

723
00:28:55,010 --> 00:28:53,220
I'd like to hear it again myself well

724
00:28:57,230 --> 00:28:55,020
please do send me a copy of that too

725
00:28:58,970 --> 00:28:57,240
would you okay I'll be glad to oh the

726
00:29:00,710 --> 00:28:58,980
the address again for both for you and

727
00:29:02,390 --> 00:29:00,720
our other listeners and those who want

728
00:29:06,289 --> 00:29:02,400
to subscribe to the international UFO

729
00:29:08,990 --> 00:29:06,299
reporter is the it's the center for UFO

730
00:29:11,810 --> 00:29:09,000
studies Evanston Eva and s t o and

731
00:29:14,269 --> 00:29:11,820
Evanston Illinois 60202

732
00:29:15,950 --> 00:29:14,279
202 right thank you very much for

733
00:29:18,289 --> 00:29:15,960
calling thank you it's nice of you to do

734
00:29:20,570 --> 00:29:18,299
that but from Delaware Ohio that

735
00:29:23,210 --> 00:29:20,580
qualifies as a genuine close encounter I

736
00:29:25,730 --> 00:29:23,220
would say so yes hang on for a second

737
00:29:28,370 --> 00:29:25,740
we'll take more calls with Dr J Allen

738
00:29:31,130 --> 00:29:28,380
heineck on our UFO close encounter

739
00:29:32,149 --> 00:29:31,140
morning here on WJR Detroit you know an

740
00:29:33,409 --> 00:29:32,159
awful lot of people are coming out of

741
00:29:34,909 --> 00:29:33,419
the closet these days I don't know

742
00:29:36,529 --> 00:29:34,919
whether it's because of the effect of

743
00:29:38,510 --> 00:29:36,539
the movie A lot of people have seen

744
00:29:41,330 --> 00:29:38,520
Close Encounters of the Third Kind the

745
00:29:43,850 --> 00:29:41,340
the box office reports uh indicate that

746
00:29:46,909 --> 00:29:43,860
it will be one of the best seen most

747
00:29:50,090 --> 00:29:46,919
scene movies in history but there was a

748
00:29:51,649 --> 00:29:50,100
surprise about that Dr heineck explained

749
00:29:53,690 --> 00:29:51,659
something that you thought might happen

750
00:29:56,450 --> 00:29:53,700
as a result of the success of the movie

751
00:29:57,889 --> 00:29:56,460
that hasn't well I thought and so so did

752
00:29:59,210 --> 00:29:57,899
many others that you know people who

753
00:30:01,970 --> 00:29:59,220
would never bothered looking up in the

754
00:30:03,409 --> 00:30:01,980
sky before would uh look up after having

755
00:30:04,789 --> 00:30:03,419
seen that picture and they would make

756
00:30:06,590 --> 00:30:04,799
the same sort of mistakes that have been

757
00:30:08,870 --> 00:30:06,600
made by thousands of people they would

758
00:30:11,450 --> 00:30:08,880
mistake Jupiter and Venus and meteors

759
00:30:13,250 --> 00:30:11,460
and satellites and God knows what but

760
00:30:15,590 --> 00:30:13,260
that has not been happening oddly enough

761
00:30:16,970 --> 00:30:15,600
what has been happening is that the

762
00:30:20,210 --> 00:30:16,980
picture has apparently given people

763
00:30:23,269 --> 00:30:20,220
courage to report things that they were

764
00:30:24,769 --> 00:30:23,279
reluctant to report before and cases uh

765
00:30:26,830 --> 00:30:24,779
that are several years old are coming

766
00:30:29,330 --> 00:30:26,840
out of the closet so to speak

767
00:30:31,250 --> 00:30:29,340
do you welcome that kind of news or is

768
00:30:32,750 --> 00:30:31,260
old news just so difficult to follow up

769
00:30:34,430 --> 00:30:32,760
on that it's hardly worthwhile oh no

770
00:30:36,049 --> 00:30:34,440
those are those are those are the ones

771
00:30:38,690 --> 00:30:36,059
we really want because the current ones

772
00:30:40,490 --> 00:30:38,700
are apt to be mistakes but uh something

773
00:30:43,070 --> 00:30:40,500
that happened to a person five years ago

774
00:30:47,690 --> 00:30:43,080
and they've remembered it vividly isn't

775
00:30:50,149 --> 00:30:47,700
as apt to be a genuine case Okay uh in

776
00:30:52,970 --> 00:30:50,159
Pascagoula Mississippi that rather

777
00:30:54,590 --> 00:30:52,980
famous case where two fishermen uh

778
00:30:57,289 --> 00:30:54,600
supposedly went under hypnotic

779
00:31:00,230 --> 00:30:57,299
regression and talked about an

780
00:31:02,029 --> 00:31:00,240
experience with a uh with a visitor a

781
00:31:03,590 --> 00:31:02,039
spaceship or something tell us that

782
00:31:06,049 --> 00:31:03,600
story and tell us what you think about

783
00:31:08,450 --> 00:31:06,059
it well uh

784
00:31:10,250 --> 00:31:08,460
that is the case that I I investigated I

785
00:31:12,950 --> 00:31:10,260
was there within 48 hours after it

786
00:31:14,990 --> 00:31:12,960
happened what did they say happened well

787
00:31:16,310 --> 00:31:15,000
the two men were Charlie Hixson and

788
00:31:17,990 --> 00:31:16,320
Calvin Parker and what they said

789
00:31:20,630 --> 00:31:18,000
happened is that they were fishing on

790
00:31:24,110 --> 00:31:20,640
the banks of the Pascagoula River and

791
00:31:25,970 --> 00:31:24,120
this I'll make a short story this craft

792
00:31:27,769 --> 00:31:25,980
came down but did not land is hovered

793
00:31:30,889 --> 00:31:27,779
behind them and two very very odd

794
00:31:32,870 --> 00:31:30,899
looking creatures floated down lifted

795
00:31:35,810 --> 00:31:32,880
and floated Charlie Hixson back aboard

796
00:31:38,029 --> 00:31:35,820
and he told us that an instrument that

797
00:31:39,830 --> 00:31:38,039
looks something like a big eye passed

798
00:31:41,810 --> 00:31:39,840
over him several times as though giving

799
00:31:43,730 --> 00:31:41,820
him a medical examination

800
00:31:45,590 --> 00:31:43,740
and when I got down there I found those

801
00:31:48,769 --> 00:31:45,600
men definitely in a State of Shock they

802
00:31:50,690 --> 00:31:48,779
there's no question in my mind that they

803
00:31:52,370 --> 00:31:50,700
think this happened that is to them it

804
00:31:54,830 --> 00:31:52,380
was a very real experience whether it

805
00:31:57,710 --> 00:31:54,840
was real in the our sense of real I

806
00:31:59,090 --> 00:31:57,720
honestly don't know but what is real

807
00:32:02,029 --> 00:31:59,100
philosophers have been worrying about

808
00:32:03,590 --> 00:32:02,039
that for centuries to them it was real

809
00:32:06,710 --> 00:32:03,600
and

810
00:32:08,690 --> 00:32:06,720
um they they could not undergo hypnosis

811
00:32:12,350 --> 00:32:08,700
the nurture harder tried to hypnotize

812
00:32:14,750 --> 00:32:12,360
Charlie Hixson but he resisted it and uh

813
00:32:16,630 --> 00:32:14,760
got uh terribly terribly upset so

814
00:32:19,430 --> 00:32:16,640
whether I'm not sure what that means but

815
00:32:21,409 --> 00:32:19,440
if this were the only case like that I

816
00:32:24,529 --> 00:32:21,419
would dismiss it out of hand but we have

817
00:32:25,490 --> 00:32:24,539
dozens of cases similar to that matter

818
00:32:27,830 --> 00:32:25,500
of fact

819
00:32:31,549 --> 00:32:27,840
what is not known and maybe even you

820
00:32:34,430 --> 00:32:31,559
don't know Joe that uh that case hit the

821
00:32:36,769 --> 00:32:34,440
Press but within a few weeks on either

822
00:32:40,130 --> 00:32:36,779
side of that famous case on October 11

823
00:32:41,810 --> 00:32:40,140
1973 there were 70 other cases of Close

824
00:32:43,370 --> 00:32:41,820
Encounters of the Third Kind which were

825
00:32:45,110 --> 00:32:43,380
not reported to the Press

826
00:32:46,490 --> 00:32:45,120
and at the center for UFO studies we've

827
00:32:49,430 --> 00:32:46,500
just published a

828
00:32:52,190 --> 00:32:49,440
a report on that called 1973 year of the

829
00:32:54,529 --> 00:32:52,200
humanoids and that's also obtainable for

830
00:32:57,110 --> 00:32:54,539
the centrifugal studies now the uh the

831
00:32:59,870 --> 00:32:57,120
the humanoids these uh creatures that

832
00:33:02,690 --> 00:32:59,880
these people say they uh say they sought

833
00:33:04,490 --> 00:33:02,700
do they look anything like the uh the

834
00:33:06,769 --> 00:33:04,500
creatures as depicted in Close

835
00:33:07,850 --> 00:33:06,779
Encounters the movie oh absolutely in

836
00:33:09,590 --> 00:33:07,860
fact is that where you got it from

837
00:33:13,850 --> 00:33:09,600
that's where Steve Spielberg got it from

838
00:33:16,070 --> 00:33:13,860
he when I uh became technical advisor to

839
00:33:17,450 --> 00:33:16,080
close encounter the Third Kind at first

840
00:33:19,070 --> 00:33:17,460
I was not going to have anything to do

841
00:33:20,810 --> 00:33:19,080
with the Hollywood movie because I felt

842
00:33:24,350 --> 00:33:20,820
that would really ruin my scientific

843
00:33:26,029 --> 00:33:24,360
credibility but when I discovered that

844
00:33:27,889 --> 00:33:26,039
Spielberg had really done his homework

845
00:33:31,970 --> 00:33:27,899
very well and had uh was very

846
00:33:33,830 --> 00:33:31,980
knowledgeable uh he based the appearance

847
00:33:35,570 --> 00:33:33,840
of the creatures pretty much on actual

848
00:33:37,730 --> 00:33:35,580
UFO reports yeah

849
00:33:40,669 --> 00:33:37,740
fascinating well they look to it they

850
00:33:43,009 --> 00:33:40,679
almost look like an embryo uh yeah well

851
00:33:44,750 --> 00:33:43,019
actually I would tend to describe them

852
00:33:47,810 --> 00:33:44,760
know in general as

853
00:33:50,029 --> 00:33:47,820
uh overgrown goblins generally large

854
00:33:51,710 --> 00:33:50,039
head spindly bodies

855
00:33:53,870 --> 00:33:51,720
and uh

856
00:33:57,110 --> 00:33:53,880
I I'm not making this up this is what's

857
00:33:59,570 --> 00:33:57,120
reported you see nice and I'm acting

858
00:34:02,269 --> 00:33:59,580
here largely just as a reporter telling

859
00:34:04,009 --> 00:34:02,279
you what what people tell me you were a

860
00:34:05,930 --> 00:34:04,019
great disbeliever I want to talk about

861
00:34:07,909 --> 00:34:05,940
that and how much you've changed if I

862
00:34:10,190 --> 00:34:07,919
may Dr heinek in a minute here it was

863
00:34:11,810 --> 00:34:10,200
his doing he decided it was March gas I

864
00:34:14,089 --> 00:34:11,820
want to find out about that Injustice

865
00:34:16,190 --> 00:34:14,099
there were sightings of something UFO

866
00:34:18,470 --> 00:34:16,200
sightings uh in the Ann Arbor area also

867
00:34:21,409 --> 00:34:18,480
in Dexter in Dexter and as I recall

868
00:34:23,750 --> 00:34:21,419
Hillsdale and uh you came in you were

869
00:34:25,609 --> 00:34:23,760
great to Bunker in those days you were

870
00:34:27,889 --> 00:34:25,619
you headed the investigation team for

871
00:34:29,690 --> 00:34:27,899
the Air Force am I right coming into I

872
00:34:31,070 --> 00:34:29,700
was there a consultant well I had the

873
00:34:32,510 --> 00:34:31,080
investigation that immediate one yes

874
00:34:34,310 --> 00:34:32,520
yeah well that's what I meant and you

875
00:34:36,109 --> 00:34:34,320
determined it was Marsh gas how did you

876
00:34:39,470 --> 00:34:36,119
make that determination

877
00:34:41,030 --> 00:34:39,480
oh boy well the point is that at the

878
00:34:42,109 --> 00:34:41,040
press conference which they tell me was

879
00:34:44,030 --> 00:34:42,119
the largest in the history of the

880
00:34:47,270 --> 00:34:44,040
Detroit Press Club at that time

881
00:34:49,550 --> 00:34:47,280
uh I had said and I have it on record

882
00:34:51,290 --> 00:34:49,560
that if we limited our attention to the

883
00:34:54,050 --> 00:34:51,300
faint lights that the girls at Hillsdale

884
00:34:56,629 --> 00:34:54,060
had seen in the swampy area the

885
00:34:58,849 --> 00:34:56,639
Arboretum that those could be explained

886
00:35:00,410 --> 00:34:58,859
to swampcast but what happened is that

887
00:35:04,070 --> 00:35:00,420
the reporters apparently needed a

888
00:35:05,990 --> 00:35:04,080
buzzword and swamp gas was it and as

889
00:35:07,550 --> 00:35:06,000
soon as I mentioned that they underlined

890
00:35:09,589 --> 00:35:07,560
it in their press release and dashed off

891
00:35:11,410 --> 00:35:09,599
to the telephones and I couldn't say

892
00:35:15,349 --> 00:35:11,420
hold on boy that's not the whole story

893
00:35:17,450 --> 00:35:15,359
uh swampcast was it and uh

894
00:35:19,250 --> 00:35:17,460
I believed it and as a matter of fact

895
00:35:20,630 --> 00:35:19,260
the faint light still could have been

896
00:35:22,609 --> 00:35:20,640
explained as

897
00:35:24,410 --> 00:35:22,619
swampcast but not them not the major

898
00:35:28,310 --> 00:35:24,420
cities not the large things that were

899
00:35:30,650 --> 00:35:28,320
reported okay uh did the Air Force ever

900
00:35:33,710 --> 00:35:30,660
tell you look Dr heinek Guido want to

901
00:35:36,410 --> 00:35:33,720
cause any Panic explain this away as

902
00:35:38,690 --> 00:35:36,420
natural phenomena

903
00:35:40,790 --> 00:35:38,700
well did they say that to you either

904
00:35:42,950 --> 00:35:40,800
directly or by insinuation by

905
00:35:45,890 --> 00:35:42,960
insinuation yes but not directly they

906
00:35:49,910 --> 00:35:45,900
never gave me any specific orders but it

907
00:35:52,670 --> 00:35:49,920
was quite clear that they uh wanted me

908
00:35:55,609 --> 00:35:52,680
to do the best I could to explain it as

909
00:35:56,810 --> 00:35:55,619
a natural thing yeah and I tried but

910
00:35:59,750 --> 00:35:56,820
today I would do it quite differently

911
00:36:01,970 --> 00:35:59,760
today I would say look let's you can't

912
00:36:04,609 --> 00:36:01,980
conduct a scientific investigation in

913
00:36:07,490 --> 00:36:04,619
this excitable atmosphere with reporters

914
00:36:10,970 --> 00:36:07,500
buzzing around and you couldn't get a

915
00:36:13,790 --> 00:36:10,980
halfway thought in edgewise and um

916
00:36:15,470 --> 00:36:13,800
so I would say we'd have to get the

917
00:36:17,569 --> 00:36:15,480
gather the data study it carefully and

918
00:36:18,829 --> 00:36:17,579
come out with some sort of a

919
00:36:20,930 --> 00:36:18,839
um

920
00:36:24,050 --> 00:36:20,940
Daily's preliminary

921
00:36:26,390 --> 00:36:24,060
idea in a few days or a week but not on

922
00:36:28,790 --> 00:36:26,400
the spur of the moment how many books

923
00:36:30,410 --> 00:36:28,800
have you written on the subject of UFOs

924
00:36:32,390 --> 00:36:30,420
well the first one was the UFO

925
00:36:34,010 --> 00:36:32,400
experience which is the in which I

926
00:36:36,290 --> 00:36:34,020
coined the phrase close encounter the

927
00:36:38,750 --> 00:36:36,300
Third Kind yeah and then this most

928
00:36:40,490 --> 00:36:38,760
recent one the heineck UFO report I did

929
00:36:43,609 --> 00:36:40,500
have another one with um jointly with

930
00:36:46,069 --> 00:36:43,619
Jean valet called the edge of reality uh

931
00:36:48,349 --> 00:36:46,079
but the heinek UFO report even though

932
00:36:50,450 --> 00:36:48,359
the title is not a very modest one that

933
00:36:53,630 --> 00:36:50,460
was a Publisher's idea by the way

934
00:36:55,730 --> 00:36:53,640
uh is an expose really of the Air Force

935
00:36:57,589 --> 00:36:55,740
handling because I was there for those

936
00:36:59,990 --> 00:36:57,599
many years and I saw

937
00:37:01,490 --> 00:37:00,000
the way in which the Air Force the

938
00:37:03,770 --> 00:37:01,500
Cavalier way in which the Air Force

939
00:37:07,609 --> 00:37:03,780
handled this whole problem did they just

940
00:37:10,370 --> 00:37:07,619
out of hand uh cover it up just without

941
00:37:12,589 --> 00:37:10,380
any investigation at all no they would

942
00:37:15,470 --> 00:37:12,599
make investigations as I pointed out in

943
00:37:16,790 --> 00:37:15,480
the book The more certain they were that

944
00:37:19,130 --> 00:37:16,800
it was a natural thing the more they

945
00:37:22,250 --> 00:37:19,140
would investigate they they went out and

946
00:37:24,770 --> 00:37:22,260
they would ring from

947
00:37:27,890 --> 00:37:24,780
um anything that comes in from there and

948
00:37:30,349 --> 00:37:27,900
it's a little difficult a little um

949
00:37:31,550 --> 00:37:30,359
face losing to say look there's

950
00:37:33,950 --> 00:37:31,560
something in our atmosphere that we

951
00:37:35,750 --> 00:37:33,960
don't understand it's much easier to say

952
00:37:38,569 --> 00:37:35,760
well it's it's a we do understand It's

953
00:37:41,569 --> 00:37:38,579
Perfectly Natural it's uh swamp gas it's

954
00:37:43,609 --> 00:37:41,579
uh uh aircraft and so forth was this on

955
00:37:45,410 --> 00:37:43,619
a directive from some power on high the

956
00:37:47,210 --> 00:37:45,420
secretary of the Air Force or the

957
00:37:49,250 --> 00:37:47,220
president of the United States or was

958
00:37:51,589 --> 00:37:49,260
this do you think that this

959
00:37:54,650 --> 00:37:51,599
responsibility was assumed by some

960
00:37:56,210 --> 00:37:54,660
generals well the Project Blue Book and

961
00:37:59,210 --> 00:37:56,220
the director of the people who ran it

962
00:38:02,750 --> 00:37:59,220
had a job to do and they were acting

963
00:38:05,810 --> 00:38:02,760
pretty much under the directive or

964
00:38:09,950 --> 00:38:05,820
direct recommendation of the CIA uh

965
00:38:14,270 --> 00:38:09,960
convened Robertson panel which uh

966
00:38:16,790 --> 00:38:14,280
the air for the CIA was not afraid of

967
00:38:19,069 --> 00:38:16,800
UFOs they were afraid of UFO reports and

968
00:38:20,569 --> 00:38:19,079
the things that your reports might do

969
00:38:23,589 --> 00:38:20,579
to people

970
00:38:26,870 --> 00:38:23,599
um at that time this whole question of

971
00:38:29,150 --> 00:38:26,880
subversion was much more in the air than

972
00:38:32,030 --> 00:38:29,160
it is today and they were afraid that

973
00:38:34,430 --> 00:38:32,040
the various UFO flying saucer clubs and

974
00:38:36,890 --> 00:38:34,440
organizations might be used as fronts

975
00:38:38,990 --> 00:38:36,900
for subversive activity also another

976
00:38:42,410 --> 00:38:39,000
thing that was very important in July of

977
00:38:45,530 --> 00:38:42,420
1952 for several days the military wires

978
00:38:48,530 --> 00:38:45,540
became literally clogged with UFO

979
00:38:49,730 --> 00:38:48,540
reports and the CIA was afraid that if

980
00:38:52,130 --> 00:38:49,740
some Nation wanted to launch another

981
00:38:54,170 --> 00:38:52,140
Pearl Harbor all they need to do would

982
00:38:56,870 --> 00:38:54,180
be to get their agents to spawn a whole

983
00:38:58,550 --> 00:38:56,880
bunch of false UFO reports clogged the

984
00:39:01,130 --> 00:38:58,560
military wires and Confused the

985
00:39:03,470 --> 00:39:01,140
situation so they the CIA was quite

986
00:39:06,950 --> 00:39:03,480
seriously concerned not so much with

987
00:39:09,770 --> 00:39:06,960
UFOs but with UFO reports motivated dude

988
00:39:11,089 --> 00:39:09,780
with good reasons oh yes yes and they

989
00:39:13,550 --> 00:39:11,099
they their director or their

990
00:39:14,990 --> 00:39:13,560
recommendation I should say was a very

991
00:39:17,030 --> 00:39:15,000
strong one that the Air Force do

992
00:39:19,550 --> 00:39:17,040
everything in its power to debunk play

993
00:39:20,870 --> 00:39:19,560
down a whole the fort sort of thing and

994
00:39:22,310 --> 00:39:20,880
you were part of that debunking I was

995
00:39:24,770 --> 00:39:22,320
part of that yeah have you ever seen a

996
00:39:26,690 --> 00:39:24,780
flying saucer I've never had a close

997
00:39:28,550 --> 00:39:26,700
encounter but on two occasions I have

998
00:39:29,870 --> 00:39:28,560
seen things which I definitely could not

999
00:39:31,970 --> 00:39:29,880
explain and have not been able to

1000
00:39:33,829 --> 00:39:31,980
explain to this day as an astronomy

1001
00:39:36,050 --> 00:39:33,839
Professor it's unlikely that they were

1002
00:39:38,450 --> 00:39:36,060
celestial bodies now that that's very

1003
00:39:41,050 --> 00:39:38,460
true I mean that's one thing I do

1004
00:39:43,130 --> 00:39:41,060
believe I'm competent to identify

1005
00:39:45,710 --> 00:39:43,140
although it's surprising how many people

1006
00:39:47,990 --> 00:39:45,720
are not that is people are still puzzled

1007
00:39:50,150 --> 00:39:48,000
very much by a very bright meteor even

1008
00:39:51,890 --> 00:39:50,160
trained pilots where we had cases in

1009
00:39:53,210 --> 00:39:51,900
which commercial pilots have swerved

1010
00:39:54,650 --> 00:39:53,220
their airplanes thinking that they were

1011
00:39:55,970 --> 00:39:54,660
on a head-on collision course with

1012
00:39:59,030 --> 00:39:55,980
something that turned out to be a very

1013
00:40:00,230 --> 00:39:59,040
bright meteor 100 miles away or so and

1014
00:40:02,210 --> 00:40:00,240
we're gonna get on the telephone again

1015
00:40:04,370 --> 00:40:02,220
and encourage folks if they would like

1016
00:40:07,130 --> 00:40:04,380
to talk to Dr heineck that we would like

1017
00:40:10,490 --> 00:40:07,140
to talk to people who have had to use

1018
00:40:12,890 --> 00:40:10,500
his coins phrase close encounters and uh

1019
00:40:15,130 --> 00:40:12,900
we will offer you anonymity on the

1020
00:40:17,690 --> 00:40:15,140
telephone our number is

1021
00:40:20,270 --> 00:40:17,700
875-4476 several people on the line have

1022
00:40:23,030 --> 00:40:20,280
you had a close encounter yes I have I

1023
00:40:25,490 --> 00:40:23,040
had some photographs that I took in 1974

1024
00:40:27,230 --> 00:40:25,500
of a UFO and I've never known what

1025
00:40:29,450 --> 00:40:27,240
agency to get in contact with that might

1026
00:40:32,510 --> 00:40:29,460
be interested in them well you've got

1027
00:40:35,089 --> 00:40:32,520
one now and I'm very anxious to see the

1028
00:40:36,530 --> 00:40:35,099
photographs please do send them but

1029
00:40:37,790 --> 00:40:36,540
don't send your original negatives I

1030
00:40:40,370 --> 00:40:37,800
don't want to be responsible for those

1031
00:40:42,530 --> 00:40:40,380
but hang on to those but let me see The

1032
00:40:44,690 --> 00:40:42,540
Prince and then if we want to then

1033
00:40:46,430 --> 00:40:44,700
investigate them further then I would

1034
00:40:48,849 --> 00:40:46,440
make arrangements special arrangements

1035
00:40:52,930 --> 00:40:48,859
to see the original negatives okay

1036
00:40:55,790 --> 00:40:52,940
uh to the Center for UFO studies

1037
00:40:58,190 --> 00:40:55,800
924 Chicago Avenue

1038
00:41:01,630 --> 00:40:58,200
Evanston Illinois

1039
00:41:07,670 --> 00:41:05,450
60202-60202 okay okay thank you yes

1040
00:41:09,170 --> 00:41:07,680
we're on the radio here on WJR Dr

1041
00:41:12,349 --> 00:41:09,180
heineck is listening to you go ahead

1042
00:41:14,030 --> 00:41:12,359
thank you uh Dr heinek I have uh was in

1043
00:41:15,230 --> 00:41:14,040
high school in 47 when this phenomenon

1044
00:41:17,270 --> 00:41:15,240
first started and I read on it ever

1045
00:41:19,250 --> 00:41:17,280
since I've been to things I've lectured

1046
00:41:20,569 --> 00:41:19,260
on and what have you uh I wanted to ask

1047
00:41:22,130 --> 00:41:20,579
you a couple of things I realized all

1048
00:41:23,930 --> 00:41:22,140
the people on the line so I'll get off

1049
00:41:26,329 --> 00:41:23,940
as quickly as possible I want to ask you

1050
00:41:28,430 --> 00:41:26,339
about the flap in Washington DC in 1952

1051
00:41:30,170 --> 00:41:28,440
and for six hours these things were over

1052
00:41:32,329 --> 00:41:30,180
the Pentagon and it gave them a fit down

1053
00:41:34,130 --> 00:41:32,339
there I want to ask you about the

1054
00:41:36,530 --> 00:41:34,140
possibility that in Wright-Patterson Air

1055
00:41:38,089 --> 00:41:36,540
Force Base in Ohio that they do have

1056
00:41:40,190 --> 00:41:38,099
I've heard the remains of an

1057
00:41:42,589 --> 00:41:40,200
entrepreneurial UFO I want to talk about

1058
00:41:44,810 --> 00:41:42,599
the pictures that we don't have that the

1059
00:41:46,730 --> 00:41:44,820
Air Force probably does have when they

1060
00:41:48,230 --> 00:41:46,740
were asked to put cameras in the nose of

1061
00:41:49,250 --> 00:41:48,240
their Jets when they chase these things

1062
00:41:50,810 --> 00:41:49,260
they couldn't catch them at least they

1063
00:41:52,730 --> 00:41:50,820
could take pictures of them could you

1064
00:41:55,490 --> 00:41:52,740
comment on any of these things yeah very

1065
00:41:57,349 --> 00:41:55,500
quickly on all of them uh the 1952 flap

1066
00:41:59,990 --> 00:41:57,359
has never been adequately explained

1067
00:42:01,910 --> 00:42:00,000
they've tried to call it uh atmospheric

1068
00:42:05,569 --> 00:42:01,920
inversion but the inversion was not very

1069
00:42:08,810 --> 00:42:05,579
strong at that time and uh so it is

1070
00:42:12,050 --> 00:42:08,820
still unexplained as far as the remains

1071
00:42:14,870 --> 00:42:12,060
or cadavers of UFO occupants at right

1072
00:42:16,910 --> 00:42:14,880
field I think that is just a story we've

1073
00:42:19,130 --> 00:42:16,920
never had any I've never found any

1074
00:42:20,930 --> 00:42:19,140
evidence that that was true and of

1075
00:42:23,089 --> 00:42:20,940
course if any one of our listeners has

1076
00:42:24,470 --> 00:42:23,099
that information uh that could be

1077
00:42:26,390 --> 00:42:24,480
authenticated I would be delighted to

1078
00:42:27,710 --> 00:42:26,400
know about it see that story had great

1079
00:42:29,270 --> 00:42:27,720
currency a couple of years ago yeah

1080
00:42:32,210 --> 00:42:29,280
honest it pops up every once in a while

1081
00:42:33,650 --> 00:42:32,220
now as far as the aircraft Air Force

1082
00:42:36,950 --> 00:42:33,660
photographs

1083
00:42:39,950 --> 00:42:36,960
I too have heard that uh I've been told

1084
00:42:41,990 --> 00:42:39,960
by military Pilots that uh uh when they

1085
00:42:43,790 --> 00:42:42,000
got back to base their gun camera photos

1086
00:42:47,390 --> 00:42:43,800
were confiscated and so forth but

1087
00:42:49,430 --> 00:42:47,400
whenever I ask these people to uh go to

1088
00:42:52,670 --> 00:42:49,440
an Old Republic and and the swear on

1089
00:42:54,710 --> 00:42:52,680
affidavits that this is true they say

1090
00:42:56,870 --> 00:42:54,720
Well they're remember the reserves or

1091
00:42:58,849 --> 00:42:56,880
they they can't they're under oath or

1092
00:43:01,270 --> 00:42:58,859
something of the sort so as far as I'm

1093
00:43:04,690 --> 00:43:01,280
concerned those still remain stories I

1094
00:43:09,730 --> 00:43:04,700
unauthenticated undocumented stories

1095
00:43:13,130 --> 00:43:09,740
they had a air force uh report uh ER

1096
00:43:15,349 --> 00:43:13,140
200-2 which said that uh Air Force pilot

1097
00:43:16,849 --> 00:43:15,359
2 had seen anything and they had talked

1098
00:43:18,770 --> 00:43:16,859
to anyone they didn't maintain secrecy

1099
00:43:20,270 --> 00:43:18,780
they would be such to ten years in

1100
00:43:21,770 --> 00:43:20,280
prison or five or ten thousand dollars

1101
00:43:25,670 --> 00:43:21,780
you heard about that what happens yes

1102
00:43:27,950 --> 00:43:25,680
that was in jnap 146e which is still in

1103
00:43:30,770 --> 00:43:27,960
effect it is so that a military pilot

1104
00:43:31,910 --> 00:43:30,780
must report any unidentified thing but

1105
00:43:34,910 --> 00:43:31,920
of course their Definition of

1106
00:43:36,890 --> 00:43:34,920
unidentified is very very broad a a new

1107
00:43:40,490 --> 00:43:36,900
Russian aircraft would be considered

1108
00:43:43,150 --> 00:43:40,500
unidentified yeah they must report and

1109
00:43:47,210 --> 00:43:43,160
it is quite true they're still under um

1110
00:43:49,550 --> 00:43:47,220
uh considerable threat of a fine if they

1111
00:43:52,130 --> 00:43:49,560
say they're allowed to talk about it if

1112
00:43:53,569 --> 00:43:52,140
it is identified they are not allowed to

1113
00:43:55,910 --> 00:43:53,579
talk about it as long as it remains

1114
00:43:58,010 --> 00:43:55,920
unidentified I want to point out that

1115
00:43:59,569 --> 00:43:58,020
the movie was just tremendous from one

1116
00:44:01,130 --> 00:43:59,579
who had been reading for years on this

1117
00:44:03,290 --> 00:44:01,140
uh I didn't see it as science fiction

1118
00:44:04,670 --> 00:44:03,300
did such a good job on depicting

1119
00:44:07,790 --> 00:44:04,680
situations that I had read about for

1120
00:44:09,470 --> 00:44:07,800
years one last question sir the it seems

1121
00:44:11,030 --> 00:44:09,480
to me that these things appear so often

1122
00:44:13,309 --> 00:44:11,040
that their appearances can almost be

1123
00:44:16,250 --> 00:44:13,319
predictable would you say that so well

1124
00:44:19,190 --> 00:44:16,260
we're trying we are so we're running uh

1125
00:44:22,190 --> 00:44:19,200
computer studies now on this and it

1126
00:44:24,950 --> 00:44:22,200
appears that possibly we'll be able to

1127
00:44:26,630 --> 00:44:24,960
predict waves of UFO sightings in the

1128
00:44:28,190 --> 00:44:26,640
future but it's still too early to say

1129
00:44:29,990 --> 00:44:28,200
right there is certainly an unusual

1130
00:44:32,089 --> 00:44:30,000
interest in our nuclear installations

1131
00:44:34,130 --> 00:44:32,099
aren't there by these things yeah now

1132
00:44:35,930 --> 00:44:34,140
that may uh that may have a Perfectly

1133
00:44:38,089 --> 00:44:35,940
Natural explanation the military

1134
00:44:40,370 --> 00:44:38,099
installations the nuclear installations

1135
00:44:42,890 --> 00:44:40,380
especially of course have 24-hour guards

1136
00:44:45,890 --> 00:44:42,900
and they're out there watching and they

1137
00:44:47,329 --> 00:44:45,900
would be more apt to see something uh

1138
00:44:48,950 --> 00:44:47,339
when it happens of course another

1139
00:44:51,410 --> 00:44:48,960
explanation is that they're under

1140
00:44:53,569 --> 00:44:51,420
surveillance but I don't know doctor

1141
00:44:55,089 --> 00:44:53,579
where what are your thoughts as to if

1142
00:44:57,230 --> 00:44:55,099
indeed these things are

1143
00:44:59,930 --> 00:44:57,240
extraterrestrially directed

1144
00:45:01,010 --> 00:44:59,940
uh why don't they land make themselves

1145
00:45:02,809 --> 00:45:01,020
known

1146
00:45:05,089 --> 00:45:02,819
well that's one of the questions uh

1147
00:45:06,109 --> 00:45:05,099
that's the situation they don't uh why

1148
00:45:07,730 --> 00:45:06,119
aren't

1149
00:45:09,650 --> 00:45:07,740
well I suppose I could turn the question

1150
00:45:12,650 --> 00:45:09,660
around and say why should they

1151
00:45:14,809 --> 00:45:12,660
I don't know it's um uh you might just

1152
00:45:19,609 --> 00:45:14,819
will ask why do kangaroos jump

1153
00:45:21,230 --> 00:45:19,619
uh they do uh see the the hardest thing

1154
00:45:23,510 --> 00:45:21,240
to get across in this whole field is

1155
00:45:25,490 --> 00:45:23,520
that this is the research problem we

1156
00:45:28,910 --> 00:45:25,500
have lots of questions and very few

1157
00:45:30,290 --> 00:45:28,920
answers uh I might turn around and ask

1158
00:45:31,849 --> 00:45:30,300
you why don't we have the cure for

1159
00:45:33,370 --> 00:45:31,859
cancer yet we've been studying it for a

1160
00:45:36,170 --> 00:45:33,380
long while

1161
00:45:38,569 --> 00:45:36,180
so many people see these things it just

1162
00:45:40,910 --> 00:45:38,579
it just makes logical sense to say well

1163
00:45:43,190 --> 00:45:40,920
they apparently mean no harm because so

1164
00:45:45,470 --> 00:45:43,200
far as we know they have caused none or

1165
00:45:48,730 --> 00:45:45,480
at least very little they are obviously

1166
00:45:51,109 --> 00:45:48,740
curious or they wouldn't be uh uh

1167
00:45:52,670 --> 00:45:51,119
keeping us under surveillance or having

1168
00:45:54,710 --> 00:45:52,680
a look why don't they land and make

1169
00:45:57,170 --> 00:45:54,720
themselves known that's that's a great

1170
00:45:59,270 --> 00:45:57,180
question I wish I knew the answer hang

1171
00:46:01,970 --> 00:45:59,280
on for a second doctor Dr J Alan heineck

1172
00:46:04,910 --> 00:46:01,980
with us it's almost 8 45 on a snowy

1173
00:46:07,130 --> 00:46:04,920
Friday morning in Detroit

1174
00:46:09,650 --> 00:46:07,140
warming you up with talk of you after

1175
00:46:11,210 --> 00:46:09,660
that Mal wanted to know about doctor

1176
00:46:13,130 --> 00:46:11,220
well

1177
00:46:15,170 --> 00:46:13,140
that's a very good example of a close

1178
00:46:17,450 --> 00:46:15,180
encounter of the first kind

1179
00:46:21,109 --> 00:46:17,460
but it was very close but nothing really

1180
00:46:23,329 --> 00:46:21,119
happened a young Navy man was walking

1181
00:46:25,370 --> 00:46:23,339
home from his girlfriends in uh near

1182
00:46:28,309 --> 00:46:25,380
Exeter New Hampshire when this

1183
00:46:30,770 --> 00:46:28,319
brilliantly illuminated object uh

1184
00:46:32,270 --> 00:46:30,780
flashing lights and so forth swooped

1185
00:46:34,970 --> 00:46:32,280
down on him and he swooped into the

1186
00:46:38,089 --> 00:46:34,980
ditch and to get away his panic-stricken

1187
00:46:39,650 --> 00:46:38,099
he it then receded he dashed to the

1188
00:46:41,450 --> 00:46:39,660
nearest Farmhouse pounded on the door

1189
00:46:43,010 --> 00:46:41,460
woke the people they called the police

1190
00:46:44,750 --> 00:46:43,020
the police came out and there was

1191
00:46:46,910 --> 00:46:44,760
nothing because yesterday the police

1192
00:46:49,250 --> 00:46:46,920
were about to leave the object Rose from

1193
00:46:51,650 --> 00:46:49,260
behind the trees and both policemen saw

1194
00:46:53,450 --> 00:46:51,660
it without any question and their life

1195
00:46:55,910 --> 00:46:53,460
was made miserable for them by the Air

1196
00:46:58,010 --> 00:46:55,920
Force which refused to believe that

1197
00:47:00,170 --> 00:46:58,020
anything they had said and in my books

1198
00:47:01,490 --> 00:47:00,180
matter of fact I have an account in

1199
00:47:03,470 --> 00:47:01,500
exchange of those letters that went

1200
00:47:05,510 --> 00:47:03,480
between the two policemen and the Air

1201
00:47:07,130 --> 00:47:05,520
Force and it was really reprehensible

1202
00:47:08,750 --> 00:47:07,140
the manner in which the Air Force tried

1203
00:47:11,470 --> 00:47:08,760
to smear the reputation of these

1204
00:47:15,230 --> 00:47:11,480
policemen calling them essentially

1205
00:47:17,569 --> 00:47:15,240
deluded and so forth uh why would the

1206
00:47:19,970 --> 00:47:17,579
Air Force again go to Such Great Lengths

1207
00:47:23,150 --> 00:47:19,980
to suppress all of this they were just

1208
00:47:24,829 --> 00:47:23,160
under the idea they adopted the theorem

1209
00:47:29,450 --> 00:47:24,839
you might say that it can't be therefore

1210
00:47:32,390 --> 00:47:29,460
it isn't just simply assumed that these

1211
00:47:34,790 --> 00:47:32,400
things had to be natural as I assumed at

1212
00:47:36,290 --> 00:47:34,800
one time that obviously it had to be a

1213
00:47:38,390 --> 00:47:36,300
lot of nonsense well you never went into

1214
00:47:40,430 --> 00:47:38,400
reputation destroying however no that is

1215
00:47:43,970 --> 00:47:40,440
true I would never do that you know

1216
00:47:46,190 --> 00:47:43,980
getting a UFO information first of all

1217
00:47:48,109 --> 00:47:46,200
reporting it is a problem one has to

1218
00:47:49,550 --> 00:47:48,119
make a an emotional decision an

1219
00:47:51,109 --> 00:47:49,560
intellectual decision actually whether

1220
00:47:53,089 --> 00:47:51,119
they want to get involved or not and as

1221
00:47:55,609 --> 00:47:53,099
you point out nine out of ten decide

1222
00:47:57,770 --> 00:47:55,619
they do not for fear of ridicule and

1223
00:48:00,109 --> 00:47:57,780
other reasons too in order to get some

1224
00:48:01,849 --> 00:48:00,119
good UFO information do you what do you

1225
00:48:04,309 --> 00:48:01,859
recommend the subscription of course I

1226
00:48:06,890 --> 00:48:04,319
guess to you well yes I think but let me

1227
00:48:08,809 --> 00:48:06,900
let me back up on that a little bit uh

1228
00:48:11,030 --> 00:48:08,819
even before the picture close encounter

1229
00:48:12,230 --> 00:48:11,040
the Third Kind became so popular we'd

1230
00:48:14,270 --> 00:48:12,240
been getting it to send a few of those

1231
00:48:15,950 --> 00:48:14,280
studies many many requests from uh

1232
00:48:17,630 --> 00:48:15,960
students from various parts of the

1233
00:48:19,849 --> 00:48:17,640
country saying that they were doing a

1234
00:48:21,410 --> 00:48:19,859
term paper on UFOs or that they were

1235
00:48:23,450 --> 00:48:21,420
having class discussion and just now

1236
00:48:25,849 --> 00:48:23,460
with the picture I can imagine that the

1237
00:48:28,190 --> 00:48:25,859
next few months classrooms all over the

1238
00:48:31,849 --> 00:48:28,200
country are going to be having UFO

1239
00:48:34,010 --> 00:48:31,859
discussions and I think it is really bad

1240
00:48:36,410 --> 00:48:34,020
that those kids have to turn to the

1241
00:48:37,670 --> 00:48:36,420
Tabloid press into this lazy magazines

1242
00:48:40,010 --> 00:48:37,680
and newsstands for their information

1243
00:48:43,089 --> 00:48:40,020
they ought to be able to get especially

1244
00:48:46,190 --> 00:48:43,099
School libraries ought to have access to

1245
00:48:48,890 --> 00:48:46,200
responsible information and that can be

1246
00:48:51,829 --> 00:48:48,900
obtained through the international UFO

1247
00:48:55,550 --> 00:48:51,839
reporter which is a monthly newsletter

1248
00:48:58,190 --> 00:48:55,560
which I edit and which therefore I stand

1249
00:48:59,990 --> 00:48:58,200
back of anything that's in it uh each

1250
00:49:02,569 --> 00:49:00,000
month for instance we publish a map of

1251
00:49:04,550 --> 00:49:02,579
all the cases that have been reported to

1252
00:49:06,950 --> 00:49:04,560
us those that we can explain we plot as

1253
00:49:11,809 --> 00:49:06,960
dots those that we can't explain we plot

1254
00:49:15,109 --> 00:49:11,819
as stars and the interesting ones are

1255
00:49:16,970 --> 00:49:15,119
um summarized in the in the UFO reporter

1256
00:49:19,010 --> 00:49:16,980
and that's the subscription for that is

1257
00:49:20,690 --> 00:49:19,020
twelve dollars a year dollar a month and

1258
00:49:22,849 --> 00:49:20,700
it is obtainable

1259
00:49:26,270 --> 00:49:22,859
at the offices of the center for UFO

1260
00:49:29,690 --> 00:49:26,280
studies at 924 Chicago Avenue

1261
00:49:31,849 --> 00:49:29,700
Evanston Illinois 60202r as a matter of

1262
00:49:32,870 --> 00:49:31,859
fact just simply the center for UFO

1263
00:49:36,470 --> 00:49:32,880
studies

1264
00:49:38,089 --> 00:49:36,480
Evanston Illinois 60202 would suffice

1265
00:49:40,790 --> 00:49:38,099
okay how many people do you have at the

1266
00:49:42,650 --> 00:49:40,800
center of UFO studies working oh about

1267
00:49:46,609 --> 00:49:42,660
20 but most of them are volunteers

1268
00:49:49,069 --> 00:49:46,619
because the uh Center is funded entirely

1269
00:49:50,930 --> 00:49:49,079
by contribution popular contributions

1270
00:49:52,670 --> 00:49:50,940
voluntary contributions which by the way

1271
00:49:56,270 --> 00:49:52,680
I want to hasten to point out are tax

1272
00:49:58,270 --> 00:49:56,280
deductible this is not a UFO club or age

1273
00:50:00,349 --> 00:49:58,280
is not supported by the government

1274
00:50:02,630 --> 00:50:00,359
incidentally if we're being monitored

1275
00:50:05,210 --> 00:50:02,640
right now by anybody up there in any

1276
00:50:06,829 --> 00:50:05,220
kind of a vehicle extraterrestrial or

1277
00:50:09,349 --> 00:50:06,839
otherwise and you feel like you would

1278
00:50:13,510 --> 00:50:09,359
like to contact us please do call Select

1279
00:50:18,650 --> 00:50:15,890
313-875-440 okay you're on the air with

1280
00:50:23,030 --> 00:50:18,660
foot about 10 years ago I was driving

1281
00:50:25,609 --> 00:50:23,040
from Ann Arbor to Jackson at dusk and I

1282
00:50:27,230 --> 00:50:25,619
saw a bright light from a distance and I

1283
00:50:29,690 --> 00:50:27,240
thought it was a barn fire because it

1284
00:50:32,450 --> 00:50:29,700
was out in the country and as I got

1285
00:50:34,370 --> 00:50:32,460
closer I realized that it wasn't but I

1286
00:50:36,950 --> 00:50:34,380
still obviously thought of other things

1287
00:50:38,690 --> 00:50:36,960
that it could be and it was important

1288
00:50:41,329 --> 00:50:38,700
enough that all the traffic was stopped

1289
00:50:43,730 --> 00:50:41,339
on I-94 and pulled off on the side of

1290
00:50:46,250 --> 00:50:43,740
the road well I was in a convertible and

1291
00:50:47,089 --> 00:50:46,260
I was also late for a play I was going

1292
00:50:50,030 --> 00:50:47,099
to

1293
00:50:51,470 --> 00:50:50,040
so I kept going I was awful excited and

1294
00:50:54,290 --> 00:50:51,480
so I kept going

1295
00:50:56,750 --> 00:50:54,300
and but it has bothered me enough for 10

1296
00:50:58,730 --> 00:50:56,760
years that I've tried to duplicate it in

1297
00:51:01,370 --> 00:50:58,740
my you tried to see something that would

1298
00:51:03,589 --> 00:51:01,380
be similar and I never could and at that

1299
00:51:06,410 --> 00:51:03,599
time I did call the Sheriff's Office and

1300
00:51:07,970 --> 00:51:06,420
he said we didn't want any reports and

1301
00:51:10,450 --> 00:51:07,980
we don't want to hear anything about it

1302
00:51:13,609 --> 00:51:10,460
if nothing happens

1303
00:51:17,450 --> 00:51:13,619
and I said the traffic was stopped there

1304
00:51:19,309 --> 00:51:17,460
must have been 60 or 70 cars stop he

1305
00:51:22,309 --> 00:51:19,319
said lady you didn't see it you know you

1306
00:51:25,790 --> 00:51:22,319
were really dreamy but it was a

1307
00:51:26,930 --> 00:51:25,800
like a theater Marquee I mean the only

1308
00:51:29,390 --> 00:51:26,940
thing I could

1309
00:51:31,670 --> 00:51:29,400
in my mind think that it was like a

1310
00:51:33,890 --> 00:51:31,680
theater Market but about a three-story

1311
00:51:36,049 --> 00:51:33,900
High building and it was large but the

1312
00:51:38,630 --> 00:51:36,059
lights were blinking in random fashion

1313
00:51:41,329 --> 00:51:38,640
and Denise it I thought that it was

1314
00:51:43,010 --> 00:51:41,339
trying to repair a radio antenna or

1315
00:51:44,630 --> 00:51:43,020
something because there was this wrong

1316
00:51:46,549 --> 00:51:44,640
thing with red lights on it like a radio

1317
00:51:47,990 --> 00:51:46,559
like that was it stationary or was it

1318
00:51:50,750 --> 00:51:48,000
moving it was

1319
00:51:53,930 --> 00:51:50,760
and there was no sound at all and

1320
00:51:56,809 --> 00:51:53,940
60 Acres away as it was across the field

1321
00:51:58,549 --> 00:51:56,819
and in between there was a fence and it

1322
00:52:01,430 --> 00:51:58,559
was I don't think there was any noise

1323
00:52:04,250 --> 00:52:01,440
but my car was going but it certainly

1324
00:52:05,930 --> 00:52:04,260
wasn't noise like you would think to

1325
00:52:08,630 --> 00:52:05,940
support something that big in the air

1326
00:52:10,730 --> 00:52:08,640
are you any good at sketching things I'm

1327
00:52:12,770 --> 00:52:10,740
not but I am a trained Observer I have

1328
00:52:14,329 --> 00:52:12,780
directors and produce television as a

1329
00:52:16,190 --> 00:52:14,339
matter of fact so I'm quite aware of

1330
00:52:18,710 --> 00:52:16,200
visual operation I was wondering if you

1331
00:52:20,750 --> 00:52:18,720
could sketch me or to give me give me a

1332
00:52:22,849 --> 00:52:20,760
um a verbal description a written

1333
00:52:24,770 --> 00:52:22,859
description that is in I will send it to

1334
00:52:26,329 --> 00:52:24,780
you but I wondered if anybody else had

1335
00:52:28,370 --> 00:52:26,339
ever talked to them it could have been

1336
00:52:29,930 --> 00:52:28,380
since that many cars were stopping is it

1337
00:52:31,370 --> 00:52:29,940
is possible that somebody listening to

1338
00:52:33,230 --> 00:52:31,380
us right now is one of those people

1339
00:52:35,329 --> 00:52:33,240
right and

1340
00:52:37,370 --> 00:52:35,339
never in the paper and it was never

1341
00:52:38,930 --> 00:52:37,380
reported but I did go back to school I

1342
00:52:40,790 --> 00:52:38,940
was teaching at that time and I did go

1343
00:52:44,390 --> 00:52:40,800
back to school and I said to one of the

1344
00:52:47,870 --> 00:52:44,400
teachers I have you know something

1345
00:52:49,910 --> 00:52:47,880
very funny has happened to me and I have

1346
00:52:51,410 --> 00:52:49,920
to share with somebody I've taken my

1347
00:52:53,390 --> 00:52:51,420
children out and tried to find this

1348
00:52:54,890 --> 00:52:53,400
place and there's no radio antenna now

1349
00:52:58,130 --> 00:52:54,900
that you know it just doesn't disappear

1350
00:52:59,870 --> 00:52:58,140
overnight right and we I just wanted

1351
00:53:01,670 --> 00:52:59,880
some sort of physical evidence that

1352
00:53:02,930 --> 00:53:01,680
something had been there so I said to

1353
00:53:04,730 --> 00:53:02,940
the teacher I'm going to say something

1354
00:53:06,349 --> 00:53:04,740
to you but I don't want you to anybody

1355
00:53:11,690 --> 00:53:06,359
and

1356
00:53:13,670 --> 00:53:11,700
also another teacher had experienced

1357
00:53:16,010 --> 00:53:13,680
something similar at a

1358
00:53:17,750 --> 00:53:16,020
uh children's camp in Maine something

1359
00:53:19,549 --> 00:53:17,760
had come down to the hill while the

1360
00:53:20,990 --> 00:53:19,559
children were on the hill so I think

1361
00:53:22,790 --> 00:53:21,000
it's I think there are a lot of people

1362
00:53:25,130 --> 00:53:22,800
around that have had experiences a lot

1363
00:53:26,630 --> 00:53:25,140
of very educated people but because I

1364
00:53:28,670 --> 00:53:26,640
didn't want to lose my job and they

1365
00:53:30,770 --> 00:53:28,680
didn't want to lose I think you raised a

1366
00:53:33,349 --> 00:53:30,780
very very important point there and the

1367
00:53:35,990 --> 00:53:33,359
the movie now is making it more socially

1368
00:53:39,950 --> 00:53:36,000
acceptable to talk about UFO UFOs are no

1369
00:53:42,410 --> 00:53:39,960
longer a dirty word and uh we are now

1370
00:53:44,329 --> 00:53:42,420
getting cases at the center which are

1371
00:53:47,150 --> 00:53:44,339
old five to ten years old that people

1372
00:53:48,470 --> 00:53:47,160
have been reluctant to report and I

1373
00:53:50,809 --> 00:53:48,480
would like to point out to our listeners

1374
00:53:54,829 --> 00:53:50,819
that I feel it is their scientific duty

1375
00:53:56,870 --> 00:53:54,839
to report such cases because how can we

1376
00:53:59,510 --> 00:53:56,880
ever solve this problem if we don't have

1377
00:54:01,790 --> 00:53:59,520
proper data to work with Okay thank you

1378
00:54:03,049 --> 00:54:01,800
very much for calling all right Dr honey

1379
00:54:05,870 --> 00:54:03,059
thank you we're going to take a 15

1380
00:54:08,750 --> 00:54:05,880
minute break here if you are a ranking

1381
00:54:10,910 --> 00:54:08,760
skeptic you were a ranking Skipper I

1382
00:54:14,089 --> 00:54:10,920
certainly was the the fact remains that

1383
00:54:16,549 --> 00:54:14,099
UFO reports exist they continue to to

1384
00:54:20,750 --> 00:54:16,559
come in from all over the world

1385
00:54:22,370 --> 00:54:20,760
and from many of them are come from very

1386
00:54:25,910 --> 00:54:22,380
responsible

1387
00:54:28,450 --> 00:54:25,920
persons so you know these are the facts

1388
00:54:33,410 --> 00:54:28,460
that you can't controvert have I been

1389
00:54:35,510 --> 00:54:33,420
have I been misled or misinformed uh in

1390
00:54:38,690 --> 00:54:35,520
in thinking that there have been more

1391
00:54:40,309 --> 00:54:38,700
UFO reports in the United States than in

1392
00:54:41,870 --> 00:54:40,319
other foreign countries

1393
00:54:44,030 --> 00:54:41,880
uh

1394
00:54:45,530 --> 00:54:44,040
we have a great many of course simply

1395
00:54:48,109 --> 00:54:45,540
because communication is so good but

1396
00:54:50,270 --> 00:54:48,119
Canada for instance there are more UFO

1397
00:54:51,650 --> 00:54:50,280
sightings per capita in Canada than

1398
00:54:53,030 --> 00:54:51,660
there are in the United States what

1399
00:54:55,010 --> 00:54:53,040
about some of the Western European

1400
00:54:56,530 --> 00:54:55,020
countries well we have reports now from

1401
00:55:00,170 --> 00:54:56,540
well over a hundred different countries

1402
00:55:01,130 --> 00:55:00,180
but reporting and Communications are

1403
00:55:03,230 --> 00:55:01,140
sometimes difficult the language

1404
00:55:05,089 --> 00:55:03,240
difficulties for one thing governmental

1405
00:55:06,010 --> 00:55:05,099
difficulties in others it's difficult to

1406
00:55:08,809 --> 00:55:06,020
get

1407
00:55:10,670 --> 00:55:08,819
reports from the Iron Iron Curtain

1408
00:55:12,890 --> 00:55:10,680
countries for instance although we do

1409
00:55:15,410 --> 00:55:12,900
they they have the same sorts of things

1410
00:55:16,970 --> 00:55:15,420
there that we have here okay same sorts

1411
00:55:19,069 --> 00:55:16,980
of reports Dr Hannah cook I want to see

1412
00:55:20,750 --> 00:55:19,079
a UFO I've never seen one I've never

1413
00:55:22,190 --> 00:55:20,760
even seen any bright lights to be

1414
00:55:25,190 --> 00:55:22,200
absolutely honest with you that I

1415
00:55:28,069 --> 00:55:25,200
couldn't figure out almost instantly and

1416
00:55:29,750 --> 00:55:28,079
describe as natural phenomenal you're in

1417
00:55:31,670 --> 00:55:29,760
good company our estimates is that only

1418
00:55:33,890 --> 00:55:31,680
one out of every 40 or so people

1419
00:55:36,170 --> 00:55:33,900
actually ever have a UFO experience

1420
00:55:37,970 --> 00:55:36,180
suppose when this snow finally does stop

1421
00:55:39,890 --> 00:55:37,980
and the weather clears up and it's a

1422
00:55:41,569 --> 00:55:39,900
clear night and I'm driving home or I'm

1423
00:55:44,930 --> 00:55:41,579
sitting in my backyard and I suddenly

1424
00:55:46,250 --> 00:55:44,940
see why of these things what do I do the

1425
00:55:48,430 --> 00:55:46,260
very first thing you should do is get

1426
00:55:50,930 --> 00:55:48,440
Witnesses for your own protection

1427
00:55:53,450 --> 00:55:50,940
because then you can say well look he

1428
00:55:55,490 --> 00:55:53,460
saw it too or she saw it too but from

1429
00:55:58,069 --> 00:55:55,500
the scientific standpoint it's extremely

1430
00:56:00,349 --> 00:55:58,079
important to have witnesses because then

1431
00:56:02,030 --> 00:56:00,359
when we go to investigate it we can get

1432
00:56:03,829 --> 00:56:02,040
the accounts of the individuals

1433
00:56:05,870 --> 00:56:03,839
separately and that's what we always do

1434
00:56:08,990 --> 00:56:05,880
we never get them together and we

1435
00:56:11,210 --> 00:56:09,000
interrogate people independently and uh

1436
00:56:15,589 --> 00:56:11,220
but you see I I'm going to be very

1437
00:56:18,829 --> 00:56:15,599
reluctant to uh to call any police for

1438
00:56:20,630 --> 00:56:18,839
example to call officials because I

1439
00:56:23,750 --> 00:56:20,640
would be subject to Great ridicule and I

1440
00:56:27,290 --> 00:56:23,760
would like to avoid that well

1441
00:56:30,049 --> 00:56:27,300
after you get your Witnesses have your

1442
00:56:31,549 --> 00:56:30,059
you and have them separately write a

1443
00:56:34,010 --> 00:56:31,559
simple narrative account of what happens

1444
00:56:36,290 --> 00:56:34,020
is just very simple things and the time

1445
00:56:38,150 --> 00:56:36,300
the duration and then send it to the

1446
00:56:40,370 --> 00:56:38,160
Center for UFO studies

1447
00:56:44,750 --> 00:56:40,380
in Evanston Illinois

1448
00:56:47,089 --> 00:56:44,760
send the zip is 60202 and there you're

1449
00:56:49,130 --> 00:56:47,099
you have no fear of ridicule whatsoever

1450
00:56:52,069 --> 00:56:49,140
because we operate something like a

1451
00:56:53,510 --> 00:56:52,079
medical clinic uh Medical Clinic doesn't

1452
00:56:55,690 --> 00:56:53,520
give you the names of its patients out

1453
00:56:59,210 --> 00:56:55,700
and things of that sort neither do we

1454
00:57:01,130 --> 00:56:59,220
names are not used except without either

1455
00:57:02,210 --> 00:57:01,140
not used except when we have permission

1456
00:57:05,329 --> 00:57:02,220
to do it

1457
00:57:07,250 --> 00:57:05,339
okay so what you're saying is you don't

1458
00:57:09,290 --> 00:57:07,260
necessarily have to report this to

1459
00:57:11,930 --> 00:57:09,300
anyone in official them that's right

1460
00:57:13,250 --> 00:57:11,940
okay send it to you and you act as a

1461
00:57:15,109 --> 00:57:13,260
Clearinghouse for all these things how

1462
00:57:17,930 --> 00:57:15,119
can you possibly examine you and 20

1463
00:57:20,510 --> 00:57:17,940
people all the thousands and thousands

1464
00:57:23,809 --> 00:57:20,520
of uh narratives that you must get and

1465
00:57:27,230 --> 00:57:23,819
inquiries well it isn't difficult to to

1466
00:57:31,609 --> 00:57:27,240
weed out the typical cases of sightings

1467
00:57:33,589 --> 00:57:31,619
and meteors airplanes advertising planes

1468
00:57:35,150 --> 00:57:33,599
um balloons satellites they fit a

1469
00:57:36,829 --> 00:57:35,160
pattern and you can almost spot them

1470
00:57:39,349 --> 00:57:36,839
almost immediately any trained

1471
00:57:41,809 --> 00:57:39,359
investigator can spot those we home in

1472
00:57:43,549 --> 00:57:41,819
on the cases that are really and truly

1473
00:57:45,470 --> 00:57:43,559
puzzling and we spent a lot of time

1474
00:57:47,390 --> 00:57:45,480
investigating those

1475
00:57:49,250 --> 00:57:47,400
sure like to see one doctor I think so

1476
00:57:51,470 --> 00:57:49,260
would you all right we're going to talk

1477
00:57:53,270 --> 00:57:51,480
to uh some people some more people who

1478
00:57:56,329 --> 00:57:53,280
have had Close Encounters on the

1479
00:57:57,230 --> 00:57:56,339
telephone in just a minute can you hear

1480
00:57:58,790 --> 00:57:57,240
me sir

1481
00:58:00,890 --> 00:57:58,800
yes

1482
00:58:02,329 --> 00:58:00,900
good morning how are you fine how are

1483
00:58:04,250 --> 00:58:02,339
you I thought you nodded off for a

1484
00:58:06,049 --> 00:58:04,260
minute yeah what can we do for you well

1485
00:58:07,849 --> 00:58:06,059
by golly

1486
00:58:09,589 --> 00:58:07,859
and first of all the only encounter I

1487
00:58:12,170 --> 00:58:09,599
had was a very humorous one which wasn't

1488
00:58:14,390 --> 00:58:12,180
an encounter I was driving along when I

1489
00:58:16,250 --> 00:58:14,400
was 12 years old with my dad coming back

1490
00:58:19,190 --> 00:58:16,260
from the doctor and here was this at

1491
00:58:21,170 --> 00:58:19,200
dusker just after dust here was this

1492
00:58:23,150 --> 00:58:21,180
undulating object off in the distance

1493
00:58:25,309 --> 00:58:23,160
she was hovering

1494
00:58:27,170 --> 00:58:25,319
and my Dad pulled the car off the road

1495
00:58:30,470 --> 00:58:27,180
and he thought this was Preposterous you

1496
00:58:32,809 --> 00:58:30,480
know in fact he was frightened as uh as

1497
00:58:36,230 --> 00:58:32,819
we stood or sat in the car and watched

1498
00:58:37,370 --> 00:58:36,240
this thing uh my dad was never shaken in

1499
00:58:39,770 --> 00:58:37,380
his life

1500
00:58:41,450 --> 00:58:39,780
by anything except this and then the

1501
00:58:44,089 --> 00:58:41,460
thing turned around and there was a beer

1502
00:58:47,329 --> 00:58:44,099
advertisement it was a blimp

1503
00:58:49,450 --> 00:58:47,339
that led me off though at 12 years old

1504
00:58:54,049 --> 00:58:49,460
follow-up reports

1505
00:58:57,049 --> 00:58:54,059
and as I was 17 or 18 I followed up the

1506
00:58:59,210 --> 00:58:57,059
reports and went to UFO Society meetings

1507
00:59:00,410 --> 00:58:59,220
and pseudo-religious meetings and this

1508
00:59:01,970 --> 00:59:00,420
type of thing

1509
00:59:04,130 --> 00:59:01,980
a few years ago

1510
00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:04,140
in fact a year ago I ran across the

1511
00:59:06,950 --> 00:59:05,530
fellow

1512
00:59:09,470 --> 00:59:06,960
[Music]

1513
00:59:11,270 --> 00:59:09,480
following a very very well and very

1514
00:59:12,770 --> 00:59:11,280
credible

1515
00:59:17,210 --> 00:59:12,780
person in the world that would come up

1516
00:59:19,670 --> 00:59:17,220
with us really and he said that the

1517
00:59:21,770 --> 00:59:19,680
when we were orbiting Spacemen that they

1518
00:59:22,970 --> 00:59:21,780
were buzzed by UFOs is there any truth

1519
00:59:24,770 --> 00:59:22,980
in this

1520
00:59:27,289 --> 00:59:24,780
well I've never been able to

1521
00:59:30,410 --> 00:59:27,299
authenticate that I have spoken to three

1522
00:59:34,130 --> 00:59:30,420
astronauts who have had UFO sightings

1523
00:59:39,289 --> 00:59:34,140
um Gordon Cooper uh Jim McDevitt

1524
00:59:41,450 --> 00:59:39,299
and um dick Slayton uh only McDevitt had

1525
00:59:44,329 --> 00:59:41,460
his sighting in the in space the other

1526
00:59:46,730 --> 00:59:44,339
two were here on solid and well dick

1527
00:59:48,890 --> 00:59:46,740
sladen was in an aircraft

1528
00:59:53,270 --> 00:59:48,900
um it's difficult to call those people

1529
00:59:56,089 --> 00:59:53,280
diluted or um Liars yeah but as far as

1530
00:59:58,069 --> 00:59:56,099
anything seen on the way to the Moon

1531
01:00:00,770 --> 00:59:58,079
no one has ever confessed that to me at

1532
01:00:02,569 --> 01:00:00,780
any rate I see I I was referring to in

1533
01:00:04,010 --> 01:00:02,579
orbit around the Earth well that had

1534
01:00:07,970 --> 01:00:04,020
been Jim McDevitt

1535
01:00:09,829 --> 01:00:07,980
and there have been other reports but I

1536
01:00:12,410 --> 01:00:09,839
won't believe them I don't accept them

1537
01:00:15,650 --> 01:00:12,420
unless I've talked to the person uh

1538
01:00:17,930 --> 01:00:15,660
personally and uh having one way or

1539
01:00:23,450 --> 01:00:17,940
another authenticated it okay and then

1540
01:00:30,109 --> 01:00:27,010
it comes to this back in about

1541
01:00:32,630 --> 01:00:30,119
1957 or so about the time Sputnik went

1542
01:00:33,890 --> 01:00:32,640
up I was on the mailing list for one of

1543
01:00:37,250 --> 01:00:33,900
the societies

1544
01:00:39,770 --> 01:00:37,260
and I thought this was great fun and

1545
01:00:41,690 --> 01:00:39,780
and I nothing based in fact years later

1546
01:00:43,609 --> 01:00:41,700
I went through all these things before I

1547
01:00:46,609 --> 01:00:43,619
threw them out all these tracks and

1548
01:00:48,170 --> 01:00:46,619
pamphlets and alleged proofs do you know

1549
01:00:49,670 --> 01:00:48,180
what year the Van Allen belts were

1550
01:00:51,950 --> 01:00:49,680
discovered

1551
01:00:54,049 --> 01:00:51,960
well let's see

1552
01:00:55,670 --> 01:00:54,059
um it must have been well in the early

1553
01:00:56,589 --> 01:00:55,680
early satellites so there must have been

1554
01:01:01,069 --> 01:00:56,599
about

1555
01:01:03,230 --> 01:01:01,079
58 or 59. okay I remember uh looking at

1556
01:01:05,690 --> 01:01:03,240
one of these pictures of the Earth at

1557
01:01:06,890 --> 01:01:05,700
this society and Society sent me and and

1558
01:01:09,530 --> 01:01:06,900
personally I thought they were a bunch

1559
01:01:12,049 --> 01:01:09,540
of crackpots but uh here was this

1560
01:01:13,370 --> 01:01:12,059
beautiful line drawing of Van Allen

1561
01:01:16,069 --> 01:01:13,380
belts and that's about the only thing

1562
01:01:19,069 --> 01:01:16,079
credible I ever came up with uh that

1563
01:01:22,069 --> 01:01:19,079
that I would have on paper and are as

1564
01:01:23,569 --> 01:01:22,079
that there were beings visiting us

1565
01:01:25,609 --> 01:01:23,579
there's the rest of it made no sense

1566
01:01:27,410 --> 01:01:25,619
whatsoever okay thank you very much I

1567
01:01:28,670 --> 01:01:27,420
think that's a yeah you're uh I think

1568
01:01:30,530 --> 01:01:28,680
it's always important to have

1569
01:01:32,450 --> 01:01:30,540
intelligent Skeptics in this whole thing

1570
01:01:33,650 --> 01:01:32,460
yeah after all you were one for a great

1571
01:01:36,410 --> 01:01:33,660
many years and you still are you're

1572
01:01:39,170 --> 01:01:36,420
scared basically I I don't accept uh

1573
01:01:40,490 --> 01:01:39,180
more than 100th of stuff I hear okay

1574
01:01:41,930 --> 01:01:40,500
it's a real pleasure talking to you

1575
01:01:45,289 --> 01:01:41,940
Doctor thank you thanks for calling

1576
01:01:47,210 --> 01:01:45,299
right now hello yes I didn't realize it

1577
01:01:49,130 --> 01:01:47,220
was my turn it's your turn I would like

1578
01:01:50,990 --> 01:01:49,140
to tell Dr heinek about

1579
01:01:52,970 --> 01:01:51,000
Nation

1580
01:01:55,990 --> 01:01:52,980
um this happened out in Colorado between

1581
01:01:58,849 --> 01:01:56,000
1949 and 1952. I was living out there

1582
01:02:00,710 --> 01:01:58,859
and my father's cousin who was an Air

1583
01:02:02,510 --> 01:02:00,720
Force officer at that time was

1584
01:02:05,089 --> 01:02:02,520
transferring to Lowry Air Force Base in

1585
01:02:06,770 --> 01:02:05,099
Denver uh one week and he and his family

1586
01:02:07,789 --> 01:02:06,780
came to visit us out in northeastern

1587
01:02:11,270 --> 01:02:07,799
Colorado

1588
01:02:13,010 --> 01:02:11,280
and UFOs came up in the conversation and

1589
01:02:15,650 --> 01:02:13,020
I told my Dad's cousin about a recent

1590
01:02:17,990 --> 01:02:15,660
article in a monthly magazine named

1591
01:02:20,089 --> 01:02:18,000
either pageant or Coronet

1592
01:02:22,970 --> 01:02:20,099
that went into great detail about the

1593
01:02:26,569 --> 01:02:22,980
inside and the outside of the UFO and

1594
01:02:30,109 --> 01:02:26,579
its occupants and the UFO has been found

1595
01:02:31,130 --> 01:02:30,119
as I remember out in Arizona that had

1596
01:02:33,170 --> 01:02:31,140
crashed

1597
01:02:34,250 --> 01:02:33,180
and my dad's cousin looked absolutely

1598
01:02:36,589 --> 01:02:34,260
stunned

1599
01:02:38,690 --> 01:02:36,599
and he said that since all this had

1600
01:02:40,190 --> 01:02:38,700
appeared in the National magazine he

1601
01:02:42,230 --> 01:02:40,200
felt that he could say why he had been

1602
01:02:44,390 --> 01:02:42,240
sent to Larry Air Force Base

1603
01:02:46,609 --> 01:02:44,400
and he and some other officers had been

1604
01:02:48,770 --> 01:02:46,619
brought out there to a school label top

1605
01:02:50,450 --> 01:02:48,780
secret and they had been learning

1606
01:02:52,250 --> 01:02:50,460
everything that I had read in this

1607
01:02:53,870 --> 01:02:52,260
magazine

1608
01:02:58,569 --> 01:02:53,880
and I don't recall whether it was

1609
01:03:04,309 --> 01:03:02,089
they are reluctant to do so what we need

1610
01:03:05,390 --> 01:03:04,319
see this story has cropped up many many

1611
01:03:07,849 --> 01:03:05,400
times

1612
01:03:10,730 --> 01:03:07,859
if it could be authenticated it would be

1613
01:03:12,789 --> 01:03:10,740
a tremendously exciting thing Jack

1614
01:03:16,370 --> 01:03:12,799
Anderson or somebody should uncover it

1615
01:03:17,030 --> 01:03:16,380
but I am not going to accept it unless I

1616
01:03:19,849 --> 01:03:17,040
have

1617
01:03:21,490 --> 01:03:19,859
definite authentication of it well

1618
01:03:24,770 --> 01:03:21,500
unfortunately

1619
01:03:27,410 --> 01:03:24,780
a couple of years go and he had retired

1620
01:03:29,410 --> 01:03:27,420
from the Air Force I might mention I

1621
01:03:31,910 --> 01:03:29,420
don't know whether it would help or not

1622
01:03:34,250 --> 01:03:31,920
I think it was a pageant magazine I'm

1623
01:03:36,230 --> 01:03:34,260
not sure I do know but after the article

1624
01:03:38,770 --> 01:03:36,240
appeared in the magazine it was never

1625
01:03:43,490 --> 01:03:38,780
seen on the newsstands again

1626
01:03:44,750 --> 01:03:43,500
well that's that's a help but um but you

1627
01:03:46,670 --> 01:03:44,760
really need if you could get an Air

1628
01:03:48,109 --> 01:03:46,680
Force officer who went to that school I

1629
01:03:49,549 --> 01:03:48,119
realized that that has been the

1630
01:03:51,650 --> 01:03:49,559
important thing you gotta have a

1631
01:03:53,690 --> 01:03:51,660
first-hand report yeah okay thank you

1632
01:03:55,670 --> 01:03:53,700
for calling you're welcome thank you yes

1633
01:03:58,130 --> 01:03:55,680
we're on the radio it's uh Dr heineck

1634
01:03:59,150 --> 01:03:58,140
here on WJR hi hello

1635
01:04:01,309 --> 01:03:59,160
um

1636
01:04:04,250 --> 01:04:01,319
we're from down river

1637
01:04:07,970 --> 01:04:04,260
we were dry along our

1638
01:04:10,309 --> 01:04:07,980
about 10 years ago and we see this light

1639
01:04:12,349 --> 01:04:10,319
from the air shining down on us and we

1640
01:04:15,230 --> 01:04:12,359
stopped the car while the neighbors was

1641
01:04:17,390 --> 01:04:15,240
on the sidewalk and we looked up and

1642
01:04:19,430 --> 01:04:17,400
this was an object that was

1643
01:04:21,710 --> 01:04:19,440
the light that came down was yellow of

1644
01:04:24,589 --> 01:04:21,720
course like a light like a beacon my

1645
01:04:26,390 --> 01:04:24,599
husband has always said that if

1646
01:04:28,130 --> 01:04:26,400
um if they've taken pictures they've got

1647
01:04:30,410 --> 01:04:28,140
our picture this he always said this he

1648
01:04:33,470 --> 01:04:30,420
says well they must be photographic and

1649
01:04:36,170 --> 01:04:33,480
the we watched this it was it was about

1650
01:04:38,210 --> 01:04:36,180
the height of a of a like where the the

1651
01:04:40,609 --> 01:04:38,220
dirt dribos will fly like the Goodyear

1652
01:04:43,549 --> 01:04:40,619
and this sort of thing and the blips and

1653
01:04:45,950 --> 01:04:43,559
so we uh we watched it it wasn't very

1654
01:04:47,630 --> 01:04:45,960
long just maybe like a minute or two it

1655
01:04:50,510 --> 01:04:47,640
was like a yellow green light

1656
01:04:52,250 --> 01:04:50,520
and it looked like lights on it but you

1657
01:04:54,349 --> 01:04:52,260
I couldn't tell that part because the

1658
01:04:57,230 --> 01:04:54,359
light was shining down real bright and

1659
01:04:59,390 --> 01:04:57,240
all of a sudden it flew to the west and

1660
01:05:01,609 --> 01:04:59,400
it it just went it was just like you

1661
01:05:05,030 --> 01:05:01,619
couldn't even snap your finger uh it

1662
01:05:07,609 --> 01:05:05,040
went that rapidly and when it flew it

1663
01:05:09,710 --> 01:05:07,619
left um it was like it left a cone after

1664
01:05:11,450 --> 01:05:09,720
it like maybe if that was

1665
01:05:13,130 --> 01:05:11,460
I don't know I always figured like some

1666
01:05:15,589 --> 01:05:13,140
of these airplanes that are skywriting

1667
01:05:17,030 --> 01:05:15,599
but this is this is what we saw and I'm

1668
01:05:20,270 --> 01:05:17,040
in the down river it was about 10 years

1669
01:05:23,630 --> 01:05:20,280
ago no did you report that to anybody no

1670
01:05:26,870 --> 01:05:23,640
because at that time too this you we

1671
01:05:29,930 --> 01:05:26,880
didn't really hard to even tell her

1672
01:05:31,549 --> 01:05:29,940
uh it was around a time when you know

1673
01:05:34,549 --> 01:05:31,559
the papers were debunking head and

1674
01:05:38,450 --> 01:05:34,559
everyone was debunking it so was I

1675
01:05:39,289 --> 01:05:38,460
and so we really didn't tell anyone this

1676
01:05:41,089 --> 01:05:39,299
neighbor

1677
01:05:42,950 --> 01:05:41,099
um episode we don't really know him at

1678
01:05:45,170 --> 01:05:42,960
all but and we never did talk to him

1679
01:05:49,190 --> 01:05:45,180
about it after that but but we thought

1680
01:05:51,950 --> 01:05:49,200
and we we were we weren't uh you know we

1681
01:05:53,870 --> 01:05:51,960
were another influence of anything but

1682
01:05:55,069 --> 01:05:53,880
it just seemed like and again this

1683
01:05:57,829 --> 01:05:55,079
morning my husband says well you tell

1684
01:05:59,690 --> 01:05:57,839
him they took her picture and that's our

1685
01:06:01,130 --> 01:05:59,700
that was our impression of it well this

1686
01:06:03,650 --> 01:06:01,140
brings up the very important point that

1687
01:06:05,390 --> 01:06:03,660
many people not only are reluctant to

1688
01:06:08,809 --> 01:06:05,400
report but they also tell me they don't

1689
01:06:11,390 --> 01:06:08,819
know where to report and uh uh the place

1690
01:06:13,490 --> 01:06:11,400
certainly one of the places to report is

1691
01:06:17,510 --> 01:06:13,500
the center for UFO studies in Evanston

1692
01:06:20,569 --> 01:06:17,520
Illinois the ZIP code is 60202 and the

1693
01:06:24,829 --> 01:06:20,579
phone number there is area code 312

1694
01:06:28,370 --> 01:06:26,150
now if

1695
01:06:29,569 --> 01:06:28,380
I I will write this up first I didn't

1696
01:06:30,770 --> 01:06:29,579
know until this morning there was a

1697
01:06:32,210 --> 01:06:30,780
place to even write and I've been

1698
01:06:33,710 --> 01:06:32,220
listening to you since you come on in

1699
01:06:36,109 --> 01:06:33,720
fact I listened to JP when he had it the

1700
01:06:39,109 --> 01:06:36,119
other time and these these things sound

1701
01:06:40,789 --> 01:06:39,119
fantastic but from what we saw I I know

1702
01:06:42,470 --> 01:06:40,799
they're not I know they're really true

1703
01:06:44,329 --> 01:06:42,480
because we saw this one why don't you

1704
01:06:47,150 --> 01:06:44,339
write it up and send it into the uh

1705
01:06:48,829 --> 01:06:47,160
Center for UFO studies to give the

1706
01:06:51,789 --> 01:06:48,839
address once again Dr honey all right

1707
01:06:57,730 --> 01:06:51,799
it's the center for UFO studies 924

1708
01:07:01,670 --> 01:06:57,740
Chicago Avenue Evanston Illinois

1709
01:07:03,650 --> 01:07:01,680
60202 or yes the center for UFO studies

1710
01:07:05,630 --> 01:07:03,660
Evanston illinois is probably sufficient

1711
01:07:08,990 --> 01:07:05,640
the post office knows us pretty well by

1712
01:07:12,049 --> 01:07:09,000
now and the zip is 60202 all right we'll

1713
01:07:13,670 --> 01:07:12,059
do thanks for calling bye-bye Dr heineck

1714
01:07:16,990 --> 01:07:13,680
I've witnessed you this morning take

1715
01:07:19,730 --> 01:07:17,000
several phone calls you have taken

1716
01:07:22,430 --> 01:07:19,740
reports of UFO sightings from literally

1717
01:07:24,109 --> 01:07:22,440
thousands of people maybe even hundreds

1718
01:07:26,750 --> 01:07:24,119
of thousands of rooms not that many but

1719
01:07:29,029 --> 01:07:26,760
we do have 60 000 reports first of all

1720
01:07:29,990 --> 01:07:29,039
you must get weary of these because and

1721
01:07:33,049 --> 01:07:30,000
secondly

1722
01:07:34,849 --> 01:07:33,059
is there a great similarity is there do

1723
01:07:37,210 --> 01:07:34,859
all these various reports no matter how

1724
01:07:40,190 --> 01:07:37,220
strange they might sound

1725
01:07:42,049 --> 01:07:40,200
do any of them have one thing in common

1726
01:07:45,109 --> 01:07:42,059
that from which you can draw some

1727
01:07:48,109 --> 01:07:45,119
conclusions well there's certainly uh

1728
01:07:50,450 --> 01:07:48,119
similar let's put it this way that some

1729
01:07:52,430 --> 01:07:50,460
people say it's all imagination well if

1730
01:07:53,870 --> 01:07:52,440
it were all imagination we ought to be

1731
01:07:56,569 --> 01:07:53,880
able to get we ought to be getting

1732
01:07:59,450 --> 01:07:56,579
reports of pink elephants with roller

1733
01:08:01,849 --> 01:07:59,460
skates or the Taj Mahal being seen in

1734
01:08:03,970 --> 01:08:01,859
New Orleans or in other words Pure

1735
01:08:06,650 --> 01:08:03,980
Imagination would give us all sorts of

1736
01:08:09,589 --> 01:08:06,660
reports we don't we get a fairly

1737
01:08:11,690 --> 01:08:09,599
definite pattern of reports

1738
01:08:13,849 --> 01:08:11,700
and from different cultures from central

1739
01:08:16,849 --> 01:08:13,859
Africa from Papua New Guinea from Brazil

1740
01:08:18,289 --> 01:08:16,859
from the Outback in Australia same sorts

1741
01:08:20,030 --> 01:08:18,299
of things are reported as come from

1742
01:08:21,650 --> 01:08:20,040
United States and Canada let's say where

1743
01:08:24,229 --> 01:08:21,660
there could have been a relatively small

1744
01:08:26,269 --> 01:08:24,239
chance for comparison between the people

1745
01:08:28,090 --> 01:08:26,279
yeah there's people in central Africa

1746
01:08:31,490 --> 01:08:28,100
don't read Time Magazine I don't believe

1747
01:08:34,309 --> 01:08:31,500
you never know what about the saucer

1748
01:08:36,050 --> 01:08:34,319
shape the shape seems to have changed 30

1749
01:08:37,849 --> 01:08:36,060
years ago when they were first reported

1750
01:08:40,430 --> 01:08:37,859
they were flying saucers well they still

1751
01:08:44,150 --> 01:08:40,440
are you still have the daylight discs uh

1752
01:08:46,610 --> 01:08:44,160
not as many today but uh

1753
01:08:48,890 --> 01:08:46,620
we seem to be getting more and more

1754
01:08:50,749 --> 01:08:48,900
cases of the close encounters rather

1755
01:08:53,329 --> 01:08:50,759
than the distant ones

1756
01:08:55,669 --> 01:08:53,339
um either they didn't they were afraid

1757
01:08:58,430 --> 01:08:55,679
to report Close Encounters earlier or

1758
01:09:00,169 --> 01:08:58,440
they didn't there weren't as many but we

1759
01:09:01,910 --> 01:09:00,179
keep getting reports especially older

1760
01:09:03,410 --> 01:09:01,920
ones now for instance the the picture

1761
01:09:06,110 --> 01:09:03,420
itself is bringing things out of the

1762
01:09:09,169 --> 01:09:06,120
woodwork we're getting reports of

1763
01:09:10,910 --> 01:09:09,179
abduction cases of very close encounters

1764
01:09:12,829 --> 01:09:10,920
the second and third kinds

1765
01:09:16,090 --> 01:09:12,839
that people will write to us and tell us

1766
01:09:19,130 --> 01:09:16,100
this happened in 1965. abduction

1767
01:09:20,450 --> 01:09:19,140
kidnapping well somebody has picked up

1768
01:09:22,669 --> 01:09:20,460
and flown around in some sort of a

1769
01:09:25,010 --> 01:09:22,679
spacecraft are not flown around no uh I

1770
01:09:26,689 --> 01:09:25,020
simply do not buy these cases of where

1771
01:09:28,789 --> 01:09:26,699
people say they took a trip to Venus in

1772
01:09:31,669 --> 01:09:28,799
a flying saucer and came back with

1773
01:09:34,910 --> 01:09:31,679
hair from a saturnian dog or something

1774
01:09:37,309 --> 01:09:34,920
of that sort the the place is covered

1775
01:09:40,189 --> 01:09:37,319
with pseudo-religious nuts and I guess

1776
01:09:41,809 --> 01:09:40,199
that makes our problem that much harder

1777
01:09:45,470 --> 01:09:41,819
but um

1778
01:09:47,329 --> 01:09:45,480
the reports of

1779
01:09:49,189 --> 01:09:47,339
Close Encounters

1780
01:09:51,650 --> 01:09:49,199
are coming what are you talking about

1781
01:09:53,990 --> 01:09:51,660
abduction the the typical pattern there

1782
01:09:56,030 --> 01:09:54,000
the classic case of course is the famous

1783
01:09:57,950 --> 01:09:56,040
case of Betty and Barney Hill

1784
01:10:00,890 --> 01:09:57,960
but there are dozens and dozens of

1785
01:10:03,830 --> 01:10:00,900
others the typical pattern that has

1786
01:10:06,470 --> 01:10:03,840
developed is that for a short time the

1787
01:10:08,810 --> 01:10:06,480
people have in their conscious memory uh

1788
01:10:11,750 --> 01:10:08,820
the experience of memory of an ex UFO

1789
01:10:14,689 --> 01:10:11,760
experience then Amnesia sets in they

1790
01:10:16,729 --> 01:10:14,699
will tell us that um they didn't know

1791
01:10:18,650 --> 01:10:16,739
what happened for maybe an hour or two

1792
01:10:21,410 --> 01:10:18,660
hours they may be found farther down the

1793
01:10:22,610 --> 01:10:21,420
road at the end of that time and then

1794
01:10:25,790 --> 01:10:22,620
there again

1795
01:10:27,830 --> 01:10:25,800
conscious but they're very puzzle as to

1796
01:10:30,229 --> 01:10:27,840
what happened in that time lapse how

1797
01:10:32,630 --> 01:10:30,239
many of these uh encounters have been

1798
01:10:34,430 --> 01:10:32,640
reported oh about 50 so far

1799
01:10:36,290 --> 01:10:34,440
are they all similar yeah they're

1800
01:10:38,149 --> 01:10:36,300
similar in this they they have this

1801
01:10:40,850 --> 01:10:38,159
conscious period and then the

1802
01:10:43,689 --> 01:10:40,860
unconscious and what we've been doing as

1803
01:10:47,330 --> 01:10:43,699
far as our funds permit is to employ

1804
01:10:49,430 --> 01:10:47,340
regressive hypnosis uh if the experience

1805
01:10:51,410 --> 01:10:49,440
has been that traumatic you know is well

1806
01:10:54,649 --> 01:10:51,420
known that the conscious mind will block

1807
01:10:56,649 --> 01:10:54,659
out a traumatic experience and we've

1808
01:10:59,510 --> 01:10:56,659
been getting some very very interesting

1809
01:11:02,689 --> 01:10:59,520
accounts from under hypnosis now I have

1810
01:11:04,370 --> 01:11:02,699
the least idea how reliable we can count

1811
01:11:06,770 --> 01:11:04,380
things that we get when people tell us

1812
01:11:09,290 --> 01:11:06,780
under hypnosis but nonetheless for what

1813
01:11:12,110 --> 01:11:09,300
it's worth these stories are remarkably

1814
01:11:14,390 --> 01:11:12,120
similar they will report that they were

1815
01:11:16,310 --> 01:11:14,400
given taken abort and given some sort of

1816
01:11:17,990 --> 01:11:16,320
a medical examination they're generally

1817
01:11:19,310 --> 01:11:18,000
rather hazy about it

1818
01:11:22,850 --> 01:11:19,320
but

1819
01:11:24,169 --> 01:11:22,860
good people good true salt of the earth

1820
01:11:27,229 --> 01:11:24,179
type people

1821
01:11:28,850 --> 01:11:27,239
have told us this and um you sound like

1822
01:11:30,830 --> 01:11:28,860
you believe them

1823
01:11:32,810 --> 01:11:30,840
um no I believe that they are sincere

1824
01:11:34,370 --> 01:11:32,820
you believe they believe what they're

1825
01:11:36,590 --> 01:11:34,380
telling you yes I believe that now

1826
01:11:38,510 --> 01:11:36,600
whether that really look I I've always

1827
01:11:40,310 --> 01:11:38,520
point out that Saul of Tarsus on the

1828
01:11:42,110 --> 01:11:40,320
road to Damascus had an experience which

1829
01:11:44,030 --> 01:11:42,120
transformed him into Saint Paul and that

1830
01:11:46,010 --> 01:11:44,040
certainly affected the human race but

1831
01:11:47,270 --> 01:11:46,020
was it a real experience undoubtedly

1832
01:11:48,830 --> 01:11:47,280
Saint Paul thought it was a real

1833
01:11:51,290 --> 01:11:48,840
experience

1834
01:11:53,990 --> 01:11:51,300
um you know van Dunnigan and other

1835
01:11:57,290 --> 01:11:54,000
writers have tried to draw parallels

1836
01:11:58,850 --> 01:11:57,300
from Biblical times and before as a

1837
01:12:00,350 --> 01:11:58,860
matter of fact to the kinds of things

1838
01:12:02,810 --> 01:12:00,360
that are happening now and indicating

1839
01:12:05,810 --> 01:12:02,820
that we the space chariots Etc that we

1840
01:12:08,090 --> 01:12:05,820
have been visited before do you hold

1841
01:12:09,350 --> 01:12:08,100
with that I don't hold with it because

1842
01:12:12,290 --> 01:12:09,360
uh

1843
01:12:14,689 --> 01:12:12,300
simply well Von daniken in the Chariots

1844
01:12:16,370 --> 01:12:14,699
of the Gods I cannot respect his

1845
01:12:17,689 --> 01:12:16,380
scholarship I mean I think I've never

1846
01:12:20,169 --> 01:12:17,699
been able to finish one of his books

1847
01:12:23,530 --> 01:12:20,179
because it's it's just nauseating to me

1848
01:12:25,669 --> 01:12:23,540
uh he might be right

1849
01:12:29,930 --> 01:12:25,679
and certainly he stirred people's

1850
01:12:31,550 --> 01:12:29,940
imaginations but um there's no the

1851
01:12:33,890 --> 01:12:31,560
evidence that he

1852
01:12:37,610 --> 01:12:33,900
tries to bring forth is mostly

1853
01:12:39,350 --> 01:12:37,620
supposition and ad hoc stuff very flimsy

1854
01:12:41,030 --> 01:12:39,360
conclusions very flimsy conclusions I

1855
01:12:43,189 --> 01:12:41,040
would say glad to see that you're still

1856
01:12:45,290 --> 01:12:43,199
somewhat of a skeptic that's uh that's

1857
01:12:46,970 --> 01:12:45,300
healthy you have not turned the corner

1858
01:12:49,970 --> 01:12:46,980
I've been watching you all morning long

1859
01:12:53,149 --> 01:12:49,980
you are very very careful to never say

1860
01:12:55,669 --> 01:12:53,159
oh yes that's uh I know what that is you

1861
01:12:57,530 --> 01:12:55,679
if you seem to be listening as a as a

1862
01:12:59,330 --> 01:12:57,540
priest and confessional or as a

1863
01:13:01,490 --> 01:12:59,340
psychiatrist on the couch without ever

1864
01:13:05,090 --> 01:13:01,500
committing yourself why is that well

1865
01:13:07,850 --> 01:13:05,100
because if I'm true to the uh to

1866
01:13:09,530 --> 01:13:07,860
Scientific principles you don't say a

1867
01:13:11,030 --> 01:13:09,540
scientist doesn't say he believes this

1868
01:13:13,130 --> 01:13:11,040
or people arrest me do you believe in

1869
01:13:14,570 --> 01:13:13,140
UFOs well belief is a sort of a

1870
01:13:16,010 --> 01:13:14,580
theological sort of thing and when a

1871
01:13:18,290 --> 01:13:16,020
scientist says he believes something he

1872
01:13:21,470 --> 01:13:18,300
means that he has enough evidence now to

1873
01:13:23,510 --> 01:13:21,480
think that this or that is so and we're

1874
01:13:25,910 --> 01:13:23,520
still Gathering the evidence okay Dr

1875
01:13:28,550 --> 01:13:25,920
heineck well I'll tell you this maybe

1876
01:13:29,870 --> 01:13:28,560
the folks who are observing us didn't

1877
01:13:31,550 --> 01:13:29,880
like our conversation this morning

1878
01:13:34,189 --> 01:13:31,560
because driving conditions have

1879
01:13:37,250 --> 01:13:34,199
absolutely turned to Glad metaphysical

1880
01:13:39,709 --> 01:13:37,260
Society do you know so yeah Sal how are

1881
01:13:43,490 --> 01:13:39,719
you just fine I was with Dr Alan heineck

1882
01:13:45,610 --> 01:13:43,500
in 1972 in London England if he recalls

1883
01:13:48,470 --> 01:13:45,620
at the festival of esoteric Sciences

1884
01:13:50,209 --> 01:13:48,480
where there was quite a number of UFO

1885
01:13:52,130 --> 01:13:50,219
enthusiasts from England that met him

1886
01:13:53,630 --> 01:13:52,140
there do you recall doctor I might

1887
01:13:55,490 --> 01:13:53,640
recall the meeting but I met so many

1888
01:13:58,250 --> 01:13:55,500
people at that time that's right well

1889
01:14:01,189 --> 01:13:58,260
Mike uh affiliation with this whole

1890
01:14:03,770 --> 01:14:01,199
story goes back from the time of 1947.

1891
01:14:07,310 --> 01:14:03,780
and my concern and questions were

1892
01:14:09,229 --> 01:14:07,320
similar to JP why are you here well

1893
01:14:11,270 --> 01:14:09,239
eventually we were able to read an

1894
01:14:12,890 --> 01:14:11,280
organization or a little group

1895
01:14:15,590 --> 01:14:12,900
who would meet and rap about the

1896
01:14:17,330 --> 01:14:15,600
possibilities of being visited one of

1897
01:14:18,169 --> 01:14:17,340
our members became what we call a

1898
01:14:20,149 --> 01:14:18,179
channel

1899
01:14:22,970 --> 01:14:20,159
through an electromagnetic beam

1900
01:14:25,669 --> 01:14:22,980
supposedly being to his brain from a

1901
01:14:27,890 --> 01:14:25,679
craft and see now you know saw me start

1902
01:14:29,810 --> 01:14:27,900
talking like this you lose me well just

1903
01:14:32,689 --> 01:14:29,820
listen to this okay the importance is

1904
01:14:34,970 --> 01:14:32,699
that we were making supposedly a verbal

1905
01:14:38,030 --> 01:14:34,980
communication through a an individual

1906
01:14:40,910 --> 01:14:38,040
okay and our concern was why don't you

1907
01:14:43,130 --> 01:14:40,920
win okay and their indication was that

1908
01:14:44,209 --> 01:14:43,140
if they were to land say downtown the

1909
01:14:46,310 --> 01:14:44,219
city of Detroit

1910
01:14:49,550 --> 01:14:46,320
seventy percent of the people would want

1911
01:14:51,890 --> 01:14:49,560
to uh destroy them for being invaded

1912
01:14:54,729 --> 01:14:51,900
supposedly by monsters the other 30 they

1913
01:14:59,090 --> 01:14:57,709
and just want to worship His God so we

1914
01:15:01,970 --> 01:14:59,100
were not prepared or ready for this kind

1915
01:15:03,410 --> 01:15:01,980
of communication of extraterrestrial why

1916
01:15:05,330 --> 01:15:03,420
do people assume that's all I've heard

1917
01:15:06,590 --> 01:15:05,340
that before I don't uh that doesn't make

1918
01:15:09,590 --> 01:15:06,600
a lot of sense I don't think do you

1919
01:15:13,130 --> 01:15:09,600
think it makes sense do you Dr honey

1920
01:15:14,510 --> 01:15:13,140
well I I suppose they there are some if

1921
01:15:17,209 --> 01:15:14,520
they observe the human race they know

1922
01:15:18,229 --> 01:15:17,219
they're we're a warlike group but uh I

1923
01:15:19,070 --> 01:15:18,239
don't think that'll be a sufficient

1924
01:15:22,550 --> 01:15:19,080
reason

1925
01:15:24,770 --> 01:15:22,560
wow let's put it this way yeah there's

1926
01:15:26,110 --> 01:15:24,780
30 years of communication supposedly

1927
01:15:28,850 --> 01:15:26,120
with

1928
01:15:31,010 --> 01:15:28,860
identifying objects I don't call them

1929
01:15:32,930 --> 01:15:31,020
UFOs I call them if those they are

1930
01:15:35,270 --> 01:15:32,940
identified there's something in the

1931
01:15:37,010 --> 01:15:35,280
skies and their communication to us is

1932
01:15:39,350 --> 01:15:37,020
that what we are seeing are scholarships

1933
01:15:41,390 --> 01:15:39,360
as opposed to motherships which housed

1934
01:15:43,310 --> 01:15:41,400
these scholarships they indicate that

1935
01:15:44,209 --> 01:15:43,320
their motherships are hundreds of miles

1936
01:15:46,970 --> 01:15:44,219
long

1937
01:15:49,070 --> 01:15:46,980
it becomes what we call a very science

1938
01:15:50,450 --> 01:15:49,080
fiction phenomena well I think it'd be

1939
01:15:52,189 --> 01:15:50,460
very important to get testable

1940
01:15:54,950 --> 01:15:52,199
information from them if they could give

1941
01:15:56,390 --> 01:15:54,960
us some information that we can then uh

1942
01:15:58,310 --> 01:15:56,400
for instance if they had told us what

1943
01:16:00,470 --> 01:15:58,320
exactly what we'd find on Mars before

1944
01:16:02,570 --> 01:16:00,480
Viking got there that would have been

1945
01:16:04,729 --> 01:16:02,580
beautiful testable information that we

1946
01:16:06,649 --> 01:16:04,739
this is the sort of stuff we need so if

1947
01:16:08,810 --> 01:16:06,659
you are communicating with them please

1948
01:16:10,850 --> 01:16:08,820
ask them to give us something that that

1949
01:16:12,770 --> 01:16:10,860
we don't know about yet all right let me

1950
01:16:14,930 --> 01:16:12,780
give you something just let me give you

1951
01:16:17,209 --> 01:16:14,940
something that they wanted to know okay

1952
01:16:18,709 --> 01:16:17,219
sure they want us to know that we're in

1953
01:16:21,470 --> 01:16:18,719
a tremendous crisis that we're playing

1954
01:16:23,330 --> 01:16:21,480
with toys supposedly that some crazy can

1955
01:16:25,250 --> 01:16:23,340
push a button annihilate our plan we

1956
01:16:26,450 --> 01:16:25,260
know that already all right they know it

1957
01:16:28,669 --> 01:16:26,460
and they know that we know that and

1958
01:16:30,709 --> 01:16:28,679
they're hearing their concern about us

1959
01:16:32,450 --> 01:16:30,719
doing the thing that they're proper they

1960
01:16:34,430 --> 01:16:32,460
don't wish to play games with us they

1961
01:16:36,530 --> 01:16:34,440
don't have to prove their existence they

1962
01:16:37,970 --> 01:16:36,540
want us to prove our own existence

1963
01:16:40,250 --> 01:16:37,980
uh

1964
01:16:41,870 --> 01:16:40,260
chance is always looking for some belief

1965
01:16:45,110 --> 01:16:41,880
then you have to do something doctor

1966
01:16:46,910 --> 01:16:45,120
when you were uh on the uh the movie was

1967
01:16:48,530 --> 01:16:46,920
Sensational there's no question about it

1968
01:16:50,390 --> 01:16:48,540
and awakened a great deal of

1969
01:16:52,250 --> 01:16:50,400
understanding and awareness with

1970
01:16:54,350 --> 01:16:52,260
everyone who's seen it there has to be

1971
01:16:56,510 --> 01:16:54,360
an effect

1972
01:16:57,530 --> 01:16:56,520
the story shows that there had been some

1973
01:16:59,330 --> 01:16:57,540
crap

1974
01:17:01,610 --> 01:16:59,340
just returned to the to the Earth or

1975
01:17:04,430 --> 01:17:01,620
came back into our dimension and then

1976
01:17:07,310 --> 01:17:04,440
after the great big ship came these

1977
01:17:09,110 --> 01:17:07,320
Americans who have now returned

1978
01:17:11,450 --> 01:17:09,120
science fiction story is not an account

1979
01:17:13,570 --> 01:17:11,460
that it's supposedly the that part was

1980
01:17:16,430 --> 01:17:13,580
pure science fiction

1981
01:17:18,229 --> 01:17:16,440
so thank you very much for calling I'll

1982
01:17:19,370 --> 01:17:18,239
see you soon take care all right okay

1983
01:17:20,750 --> 01:17:19,380
we're gonna go to the weather in a

1984
01:17:22,490 --> 01:17:20,760
second if you've been hanging on for a

1985
01:17:23,990 --> 01:17:22,500
long time I really don't care to go on

1986
01:17:26,270 --> 01:17:24,000
there but I do want to report this back

1987
01:17:28,189 --> 01:17:26,280
in 1995. we're on the air right now then

1988
01:17:37,010 --> 01:17:28,199
if you don't care to go on I I will take

1989
01:17:40,010 --> 01:17:37,669
um

1990
01:17:42,290 --> 01:17:40,020
when I was nine and my brother was eight

1991
01:17:43,970 --> 01:17:42,300
they're out in her backyard I normally

1992
01:17:46,669 --> 01:17:43,980
believe this because in our ages this is

1993
01:17:51,169 --> 01:17:46,679
about 10 years ago I think we might have

1994
01:17:53,689 --> 01:17:51,179
had a closer time I don't know we saw uh

1995
01:17:55,729 --> 01:17:53,699
white blue white dot

1996
01:17:57,770 --> 01:17:55,739
outside of the star

1997
01:17:58,669 --> 01:17:57,780
and it seemed to come from off the

1998
01:18:00,410 --> 01:17:58,679
horizon

1999
01:18:03,709 --> 01:18:00,420
to zenith

2000
01:18:05,510 --> 01:18:03,719
uh really quickly a matter of 10 seconds

2001
01:18:07,610 --> 01:18:05,520
or so it wasn't a satellite it wasn't

2002
01:18:09,290 --> 01:18:07,620
meteor it didn't have any Trail

2003
01:18:12,350 --> 01:18:09,300
uh

2004
01:18:14,090 --> 01:18:12,360
got right above us exactly above us and

2005
01:18:15,590 --> 01:18:14,100
we were watching it and it covered there

2006
01:18:19,189 --> 01:18:15,600
for about a second it just seemed to

2007
01:18:20,870 --> 01:18:19,199
stop really suddenly it just stopped

2008
01:18:24,350 --> 01:18:20,880
and um

2009
01:18:26,510 --> 01:18:24,360
then it started to move on again uh it

2010
01:18:29,030 --> 01:18:26,520
didn't if you have any acceleration at

2011
01:18:31,490 --> 01:18:29,040
all or anything you just went from stop

2012
01:18:33,350 --> 01:18:31,500
to start with nothing in between and

2013
01:18:35,810 --> 01:18:33,360
when Institute of horizon meanwhile

2014
01:18:38,689 --> 01:18:35,820
there was a second out where it had been

2015
01:18:41,090 --> 01:18:38,699
and it appeared to be descending and it

2016
01:18:42,770 --> 01:18:41,100
got bigger but not much

2017
01:18:45,770 --> 01:18:42,780
and then it seemed to get smaller isn't

2018
01:18:47,630 --> 01:18:45,780
it then the three small dots it was

2019
01:18:50,570 --> 01:18:47,640
stunning really rapidly and we don't

2020
01:18:52,010 --> 01:18:50,580
recover and uh right between where we've

2021
01:18:53,570 --> 01:18:52,020
been standing three things they might

2022
01:18:56,090 --> 01:18:53,580
have been a meteor

2023
01:18:58,209 --> 01:18:56,100
hit the ground and uh we went out there

2024
01:19:01,550 --> 01:18:58,219
the next day and there were three small

2025
01:19:03,490 --> 01:19:01,560
spots on the ground in the backyard

2026
01:19:06,709 --> 01:19:03,500
the grass it was it was

2027
01:19:08,630 --> 01:19:06,719
Spirit uh popped up and um

2028
01:19:10,729 --> 01:19:08,640
it was supposed to be quiet a little

2029
01:19:12,530 --> 01:19:10,739
triangle was about they were each town

2030
01:19:15,770 --> 01:19:12,540
was about to say

2031
01:19:19,010 --> 01:19:15,780
a half dollar and um for years after

2032
01:19:21,410 --> 01:19:19,020
that nothing ever grew in those spots

2033
01:19:23,390 --> 01:19:21,420
well that's a typical story The the fact

2034
01:19:26,450 --> 01:19:23,400
that nothing grows but did you actually

2035
01:19:27,709 --> 01:19:26,460
see these things uh fall yeah they fell

2036
01:19:30,290 --> 01:19:27,719
right between us we had a very good

2037
01:19:32,510 --> 01:19:30,300
viewers appeared out of our width

2038
01:19:34,189 --> 01:19:32,520
well this that's uh that's quite

2039
01:19:35,950 --> 01:19:34,199
interesting did you report that to

2040
01:19:38,540 --> 01:19:35,960
anybody

2041
01:19:38,570 --> 01:19:38,550
said go to bed you're dreaming

2042
01:19:41,810 --> 01:19:38,580
[Music]

2043
01:19:46,490 --> 01:19:44,450
well it's a little old for that report

2044
01:19:48,649 --> 01:19:46,500
but uh the

2045
01:19:50,570 --> 01:19:48,659
um what is the situation in those spots

2046
01:19:51,890 --> 01:19:50,580
now are they still there we moved out of

2047
01:19:53,689 --> 01:19:51,900
the hawk I don't know I haven't been

2048
01:19:56,270 --> 01:19:53,699
back you should go back and take a look

2049
01:19:57,830 --> 01:19:56,280
and let me know all right as a matter of

2050
01:19:59,270 --> 01:19:57,840
fact why don't you Chronicle your report

2051
01:20:01,070 --> 01:19:59,280
after you go back and look and write it

2052
01:20:02,870 --> 01:20:01,080
write in the letter and send it to Dr

2053
01:20:04,669 --> 01:20:02,880
heineck at the center for UFO studies

2054
01:20:07,030 --> 01:20:04,679
and give you address again it's uh well

2055
01:20:10,490 --> 01:20:07,040
sufficient to say Evanston Illinois

2056
01:20:12,229 --> 01:20:10,500
60202 okay okay thank you okay thank you

2057
01:20:13,550 --> 01:20:12,239
for calling Dr heineck is going to be

2058
01:20:16,850 --> 01:20:13,560
lecturing at Eastern Michigan University

2059
01:20:18,950 --> 01:20:16,860
this afternoon noon at noon time close

2060
01:20:20,450 --> 01:20:18,960
encounter do these things teach you

2061
01:20:22,870 --> 01:20:20,460
anything do you learn anything every bit

2062
01:20:25,189 --> 01:20:22,880
of information helps I suppose

2063
01:20:27,110 --> 01:20:25,199
we need to get this information because

2064
01:20:28,850 --> 01:20:27,120
otherwise what do we we have to have

2065
01:20:30,649 --> 01:20:28,860
data to work with okay all right go

2066
01:20:32,270 --> 01:20:30,659
ahead you're on the air yes I had a

2067
01:20:37,010 --> 01:20:32,280
close encounter when I was in my early

2068
01:20:38,870 --> 01:20:37,020
teens around 1950 657. our Mirror Lake

2069
01:20:40,370 --> 01:20:38,880
near Ann Arbor and we are visiting

2070
01:20:42,470 --> 01:20:40,380
friends and we had gone outside we've

2071
01:20:45,410 --> 01:20:42,480
been inside and we went outside and we

2072
01:20:47,450 --> 01:20:45,420
saw this dot in the sky a light just you

2073
01:20:50,270 --> 01:20:47,460
know one light it was moving very fast

2074
01:20:53,030 --> 01:20:50,280
it was coming from the southwest headed

2075
01:20:54,890 --> 01:20:53,040
toward the Northeast and uh the man that

2076
01:20:57,470 --> 01:20:54,900
we were visiting was a doctor and had

2077
01:20:59,149 --> 01:20:57,480
been a doctor in the Navy and he had a

2078
01:21:01,010 --> 01:20:59,159
pair of really excellent binoculars so

2079
01:21:03,709 --> 01:21:01,020
he went in and got them we looked

2080
01:21:06,229 --> 01:21:03,719
through the binoculars and we saw a

2081
01:21:08,990 --> 01:21:06,239
saucer with the Dome with a slight Haze

2082
01:21:10,970 --> 01:21:09,000
on it moving very fast in in the

2083
01:21:12,770 --> 01:21:10,980
direction that I just mentioned and

2084
01:21:15,169 --> 01:21:12,780
after we saw everybody sat there

2085
01:21:16,370 --> 01:21:15,179
absolutely in shock he went in and

2086
01:21:20,390 --> 01:21:16,380
called the sheriff's department for

2087
01:21:22,250 --> 01:21:20,400
Marshall County and they had had swamped

2088
01:21:30,669 --> 01:21:22,260
with claws that evening about an

2089
01:21:35,450 --> 01:21:33,590
but I have to correct you on one point I

2090
01:21:37,669 --> 01:21:35,460
would not classify as a close encounter

2091
01:21:39,709 --> 01:21:37,679
a close encounter history within say 500

2092
01:21:41,510 --> 01:21:39,719
feet right well I was thinking more on

2093
01:21:43,490 --> 01:21:41,520
the line of an unidentified flying

2094
01:21:44,930 --> 01:21:43,500
objects right right something that would

2095
01:21:46,490 --> 01:21:44,940
identify

2096
01:21:48,430 --> 01:21:46,500
well that's an interesting case but it's

2097
01:21:50,930 --> 01:21:48,440
a little far off

2098
01:21:52,850 --> 01:21:50,940
I think that was

2099
01:21:54,649 --> 01:21:52,860
the man at the sheriff's department

2100
01:21:57,470 --> 01:21:54,659
mentioned that that most people had seen

2101
01:22:00,050 --> 01:21:57,480
it through binoculars so

2102
01:22:04,010 --> 01:22:00,060
um but it was interesting anyway thank

2103
01:22:05,870 --> 01:22:04,020
you very much bye-bye how come that we

2104
01:22:07,490 --> 01:22:05,880
seem to be getting so many reports this

2105
01:22:10,490 --> 01:22:07,500
morning of sightings in the Ann Arbor

2106
01:22:12,950 --> 01:22:10,500
area why would that be well we're in the

2107
01:22:15,410 --> 01:22:12,960
Ann Arbor area not really and the Ann

2108
01:22:18,110 --> 01:22:15,420
Arbor area is a very very tiny uh

2109
01:22:20,810 --> 01:22:18,120
portion of this metropolitan area well

2110
01:22:24,110 --> 01:22:20,820
that's uh that's a point I don't know

2111
01:22:25,490 --> 01:22:24,120
the answer to that okay can I take you

2112
01:22:28,070 --> 01:22:25,500
out of the role of a scientist for just

2113
01:22:29,930 --> 01:22:28,080
a moment okay let me put you into the

2114
01:22:32,270 --> 01:22:29,940
role of a man who has been observing

2115
01:22:34,310 --> 01:22:32,280
studying UFOs for a great number of

2116
01:22:35,990 --> 01:22:34,320
years now and ask you

2117
01:22:38,050 --> 01:22:36,000
to make a couple of

2118
01:22:40,450 --> 01:22:38,060
logical

2119
01:22:44,209 --> 01:22:40,460
extrapolations from all this information

2120
01:22:45,709 --> 01:22:44,219
and project what you think all of this

2121
01:22:47,570 --> 01:22:45,719
might mean

2122
01:22:50,689 --> 01:22:47,580
well first of all

2123
01:22:52,850 --> 01:22:50,699
when one gets rid of all the static the

2124
01:22:54,770 --> 01:22:52,860
noise the Krug separates as best he can

2125
01:22:56,870 --> 01:22:54,780
the wheat from the chaff

2126
01:22:59,330 --> 01:22:56,880
there's very little wheat left I mean

2127
01:23:01,310 --> 01:22:59,340
there's the the number of really solid

2128
01:23:02,810 --> 01:23:01,320
cases are certainly the minority but

2129
01:23:05,149 --> 01:23:02,820
they are there

2130
01:23:06,350 --> 01:23:05,159
now those if you want them to

2131
01:23:09,169 --> 01:23:06,360
extrapolate

2132
01:23:11,209 --> 01:23:09,179
those do represent if you were to

2133
01:23:12,410 --> 01:23:11,219
believe them at all represent some form

2134
01:23:14,270 --> 01:23:12,420
of intelligence

2135
01:23:16,630 --> 01:23:14,280
but where this intelligence is from

2136
01:23:19,130 --> 01:23:16,640
whether it is some great distances away

2137
01:23:20,990 --> 01:23:19,140
whether it is much closer or whether as

2138
01:23:23,090 --> 01:23:21,000
some psychologists believe it may be

2139
01:23:25,669 --> 01:23:23,100
some product of our own intelligence

2140
01:23:27,890 --> 01:23:25,679
some psychic projection from as Jung

2141
01:23:31,070 --> 01:23:27,900
said from the collective unconscious

2142
01:23:33,590 --> 01:23:31,080
that's hard to see because

2143
01:23:36,229 --> 01:23:33,600
um the some of the best reports involve

2144
01:23:38,030 --> 01:23:36,239
physical traces burns on the ground and

2145
01:23:39,590 --> 01:23:38,040
radar observations and things of that

2146
01:23:41,030 --> 01:23:39,600
sort tough for imagination to do that

2147
01:23:42,530 --> 01:23:41,040
yeah it'd be tough for imagination to do

2148
01:23:43,130 --> 01:23:42,540
that and uh

2149
01:23:44,990 --> 01:23:43,140
um

2150
01:23:48,050 --> 01:23:45,000
it would be nice to theorize and

2151
01:23:50,390 --> 01:23:48,060
speculate but I can't stop being a

2152
01:23:51,950 --> 01:23:50,400
scientist I simply will not extract me

2153
01:23:54,350 --> 01:23:51,960
to the point and say that I think it is

2154
01:23:57,649 --> 01:23:54,360
this or that any more than if I were a

2155
01:24:00,770 --> 01:23:57,659
doctor a p uh a medical doctor I would

2156
01:24:02,990 --> 01:24:00,780
say the um I have a cure for cancer an

2157
01:24:05,090 --> 01:24:03,000
absolute positive cure for cancer and I

2158
01:24:08,330 --> 01:24:05,100
don't and I don't have an answer to the

2159
01:24:10,550 --> 01:24:08,340
UFO problem either it it does seem to

2160
01:24:12,669 --> 01:24:10,560
you however if I read you correctly that

2161
01:24:14,870 --> 01:24:12,679
that it is

2162
01:24:16,729 --> 01:24:14,880
directed by some sort of intelligence

2163
01:24:19,189 --> 01:24:16,739
apparently yeah

2164
01:24:22,310 --> 01:24:19,199
and that that seems to be the case and

2165
01:24:25,189 --> 01:24:22,320
the difficulty is that the subject has

2166
01:24:27,229 --> 01:24:25,199
not been treated professionally uh over

2167
01:24:29,390 --> 01:24:27,239
the last 30 years it's we've had a

2168
01:24:30,830 --> 01:24:29,400
carnival of buffoonery in the thing and

2169
01:24:33,649 --> 01:24:30,840
for good reason because the great

2170
01:24:36,530 --> 01:24:33,659
majority of the reports are nonsense the

2171
01:24:39,709 --> 01:24:36,540
cases that are really interesting are so

2172
01:24:41,209 --> 01:24:39,719
bizarre that it's much easier to try to

2173
01:24:42,590 --> 01:24:41,219
sweep them under the carpet and then we

2174
01:24:45,110 --> 01:24:42,600
are troubled by the Kooks and the

2175
01:24:47,570 --> 01:24:45,120
crackpots and the dinglings who insist

2176
01:24:50,390 --> 01:24:47,580
on muddying up the waters tremendously

2177
01:24:53,149 --> 01:24:50,400
with their utterly fantastic and stupid

2178
01:24:55,550 --> 01:24:53,159
I would say theories how it appeals to

2179
01:24:57,229 --> 01:24:55,560
them obviously

2180
01:24:59,450 --> 01:24:57,239
you know

2181
01:25:00,649 --> 01:24:59,460
I'd like to just crawl underneath your

2182
01:25:02,689 --> 01:25:00,659
skin and know what you really feel

2183
01:25:04,370 --> 01:25:02,699
you're very very careful about how you

2184
01:25:06,709 --> 01:25:04,380
put things and what you say you should

2185
01:25:09,290 --> 01:25:06,719
be I guess you have to remain detached

2186
01:25:11,570 --> 01:25:09,300
and as objective as you can be I if I

2187
01:25:14,149 --> 01:25:11,580
lose my sign to be credibility I'm I'm

2188
01:25:16,510 --> 01:25:14,159
gone and I I there's enough nuts in this

2189
01:25:19,910 --> 01:25:16,520
world so I don't want to join that group

2190
01:25:22,970 --> 01:25:19,920
as an astronomer and understanding how

2191
01:25:25,850 --> 01:25:22,980
large this universe is it does it make

2192
01:25:27,890 --> 01:25:25,860
sense to you that somewhere that there

2193
01:25:29,930 --> 01:25:27,900
must be by the uh by the law of

2194
01:25:32,870 --> 01:25:29,940
probability figuring the incredible

2195
01:25:34,610 --> 01:25:32,880
number of planets there are there must

2196
01:25:37,070 --> 01:25:34,620
be some other intelligent beings

2197
01:25:38,870 --> 01:25:37,080
somewhere the the question you see of

2198
01:25:41,030 --> 01:25:38,880
the astronomer let me give you a little

2199
01:25:42,709 --> 01:25:41,040
model suppose we made a model of

2200
01:25:44,450 --> 01:25:42,719
everything that

2201
01:25:46,550 --> 01:25:44,460
that the astronomer can today see

2202
01:25:48,410 --> 01:25:46,560
through the telescopes I suppose we made

2203
01:25:49,850 --> 01:25:48,420
that model now as large as the United

2204
01:25:51,470 --> 01:25:49,860
States

2205
01:25:53,570 --> 01:25:51,480
then that would put us someplace in

2206
01:25:55,189 --> 01:25:53,580
Kansas and we let New York be as far as

2207
01:25:56,930 --> 01:25:55,199
out as we can see in One Direction in

2208
01:25:59,030 --> 01:25:56,940
San Francisco as far as hours we can see

2209
01:26:01,669 --> 01:25:59,040
in the other then on that scale in this

2210
01:26:03,350 --> 01:26:01,679
model the Earth would not be visible

2211
01:26:05,570 --> 01:26:03,360
even in the world's most powerful

2212
01:26:07,129 --> 01:26:05,580
electron microscope now it is

2213
01:26:09,410 --> 01:26:07,139
preposterous to think that there's some

2214
01:26:11,750 --> 01:26:09,420
sub-microscopic Speck in Kansas is the

2215
01:26:13,430 --> 01:26:11,760
only thing on this model that represents

2216
01:26:15,110 --> 01:26:13,440
life between New York and San Francisco

2217
01:26:17,810 --> 01:26:15,120
would make it would make us absolute

2218
01:26:19,910 --> 01:26:17,820
Cosmic freaks your colleagues agree with

2219
01:26:21,350 --> 01:26:19,920
you completely on that absolutely you

2220
01:26:24,530 --> 01:26:21,360
are convinced there are then there are

2221
01:26:27,050 --> 01:26:24,540
many intelligent uh planets maybe entire

2222
01:26:30,770 --> 01:26:27,060
systems are tremendous we can't prove it

2223
01:26:32,689 --> 01:26:30,780
but uh that's there it I think it is

2224
01:26:34,250 --> 01:26:32,699
would be terribly egotistical to think

2225
01:26:36,530 --> 01:26:34,260
that we are the highest intelligences in

2226
01:26:38,270 --> 01:26:36,540
this entire universe but see the problem

2227
01:26:41,149 --> 01:26:38,280
is not and I think we can close on this

2228
01:26:44,209 --> 01:26:41,159
this statement that the question is not

2229
01:26:46,610 --> 01:26:44,219
Are UFOs visitors from outer space but

2230
01:26:48,950 --> 01:26:46,620
the question is what are UFOs

2231
01:26:50,209 --> 01:26:48,960
two different questions Dr hey thank you

2232
01:26:52,970 --> 01:26:50,219
very much for being with us this morning

2233
01:26:55,129 --> 01:26:52,980
fascinating these past three hours went

2234
01:26:57,350 --> 01:26:55,139
by like lightning I remind you again

2235
01:27:01,490 --> 01:26:57,360
that you can write for the international

2236
01:27:04,250 --> 01:27:01,500
UFO reporter the magazine monthly review

2237
01:27:05,930 --> 01:27:04,260
put out on UFO information by Dr heinek

2238
01:27:09,050 --> 01:27:05,940
and his colleagues in the center for UFO

2239
01:27:12,050 --> 01:27:09,060
studies just simply by writing to UFO

2240
01:27:15,770 --> 01:27:12,060
reporter uh Evanston Illinois and the

2241
01:27:17,810 --> 01:27:15,780
zip code is 60202 cost a dollar copy 12

2242
01:27:19,129 --> 01:27:17,820
a year for a subscription thank you